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Thread: KEWR 11/23/14

  1. #31
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyteam18 View Post
    This is what makes me mad. Spotters around EWR have (whether knowingly or unknowingly) by their actions while shooting planes ("I go alone and lay low") have created a troubled relationship between hobbyists and authorities to the extent that I won't come up and shoot photos around EWR, even though it's perfectly legal activity.

    I have some ideas on how to improve the spotting culture are EWR and will gladly share them.
    Not to play chicken and the egg, but the police were abusing people's right to spot for a long time before anyone felt the need to do it on the down low. Legal or not, PANYNJ police and [I think] Elizabeth County Police have been hard on spotters, regardless of whether or not it is legal.

    I'm open to ideas if you have them. I have a few ideas myself, but I think that they would be hard unless a LOT of us wanted to really work to change things there, but people just seem to prefer JFK better in terms of aircraft and spots maybe?
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D. View Post
    First, regardless of your views, I wish some people were better at communicating with one another instead of namecalling. When we see incidents like this, even if it is frustrating to us, we still need to work together, or at least treat each other with respect. Offending posts will be moderated.

    Though Bayswater has had its share of incidents (I myself have been detained there), there have been hundreds and hundreds of visits that people have had with NO issue whatsoever, so I consider the risk to be less. Also, when I was detained, the police were not as rude or aggressive as at EWR.

    At EWR, it seems that the police are ALWAYS like that, that your chances of receiving that type of attention is EXPECTED almost EVERY time you go. Not the case at Bayswater.

    If people have suggestions on the wording of the EWR guide on this site to emphasize its frequency of police encounters, I'd have no problem with that.

    As for this thread, should the spotter have been shocked to receive that attention? Not at all. Also, I don't think the spotter was COMPLAINING, but just sharing his story. And we should encourage that instead of acting like he necessarily did something wrong or as though HE is the problem here.

    He has a right to go and TRY to spot, as it is not illegal. And on top of that, the incidents should be reported here, because it helps all of us to always know what the environment is at an airport, even if it is what we have come to typically expect. Ripping on him only deters people like him from posting their experiences, and then we are all less in-the-know.

    The big problem is EWR, not the spotters that "should know better."
    A huge problem is just that the police/security at EWR abuse their power too much and make up their own rules when they get bored.
    I expected to be seen plane spotting and getting a visit from a security car. And yes, I was just sharing what happened that day.
    I won't be going back to EWR anyways though from now on. Seeing some of the comments on this thread really made me feel upset, and that
    I did do something wrong. This hobby is getting a bit crazy and too dangerous for me. I'm starting to think differently about this hobby now and I don't know if I will continue doing so.
    Last edited by CathayA340; 11-28-2014 at 08:14 PM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member RWB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathayA340 View Post
    A huge problem is just that the police/security at EWR abuse their power too much and make up their own rules when they get bored.
    I expected to be seen plane spotting and getting a visit from a security car. And yes, I was just sharing what happened that day.
    I won't be going back to EWR anyways though from now on. Seeing some of the comments on this thread really made me feel upset, and that
    I did do something wrong...I'm starting to think differently about this hobby now and I don't know if I will continue doing so.
    Why quit now? I feel that you were on the right track by writing letters and getting responses, http://nycaviation.com/forum/threads...ng-Allowed-Now keep at it, be as courteous as you can be to them and the Officers you deal with. But don't give up and quit! 6-7 years ago it was the same down here, there are two other guys I'd see on occasion and they didn't want to try to make it better, didn't like to get hassled by APD, nothing wrong with that, I made it better for myself and others who might come out. Actually saw one of them a while back drive by Landmark then came back, stopped, rolled down window and got a shot thru the fence of some plane. If he's happy with that, I'll be happy for him while I walk to and shoot above the fence and on the ramp on occasion.

  4. #34
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathayA340 View Post
    A huge problem is just that the police/security at EWR abuse their power too much and make up their own rules when they get bored.
    I expected to be seen plane spotting and getting a visit from a security car. And yes, I was just sharing what happened that day.
    I won't be going back to EWR anyways though from now on. Seeing some of the comments on this thread really made me feel upset, and that
    I did do something wrong. This hobby is getting a bit crazy and too dangerous for me. I'm starting to think differently about this hobby now and I don't know if I will continue doing so.
    Sorry you feel this way but as you have learned EWR is a airport that you have to treat differently than others. I suggest you take some of the advice and you will be surprised. I know this forum can come across as standoffish but it's also a wealth of info. If you use it you will benefit.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D. View Post

    I'm open to ideas if you have them. I have a few ideas myself, but I think that they would be hard unless a LOT of us wanted to really work to change things there, but people just seem to prefer JFK better in terms of aircraft and spots maybe?
    This past summer I've spotted with a spotter from MIA and he told me: "MIA wasn't always spotter friendly airport, but people just kept coming and coming...and one day some of authahorities started thinking: "well, maybe those guys aren't bad"...and things started to change"... And he told me: "That's what you guys here @ JFK(my note: EWR) should do"

    Things would change if local media would cover more about this hobby - planespotting...Problem is not some of PD, but too many paranoid people who call PD if they see spotters.
    PD should understand, that spotters are like extra security - which bad guy would want to do some bad things if they see a bunch of guys with cameras? Another thing is - you never know what you can get in a image frame...Most spotters if see anything suspicious - would give image to PD...I would.

    Quote Originally Posted by CathayA340 View Post
    I expected to be seen plane spotting and getting a visit from a security car. And yes, I was just sharing what happened that day.
    I won't be going back to EWR anyways though from now on. Seeing some of the comments on this thread really made me feel upset, and that
    I did do something wrong...I'm starting to think differently about this hobby now and I don't know if I will continue doing so.
    Bad idea - "I expected to be seen plane spotting and getting a visit from a security car." And I do guess, some get kicked out of T5 because of similar reasons.
    I agree with Nick about staying low at some spots - where we should not pretend like we're photographing some wedding reception...

    CathayA340, don't need to dramatize your experience. Before you quit, maybe think again and you've to change something - it needs flexibility - where and how you spot at different locations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    Being questioned by the authorities and possible being
    detained for a few minutes does not constitute danger!! Stop being so friggin dramatic!!
    Gerard...what's worse for you: to be hand-cuffed, brought to a precinct and spend there a couple or more hours? or just asked to leave? Or asked to show your ID - I had to show my ID @ Costcos and Paneras maybe 4-5 times in one year period. Detained - it was not a few minutes(as you say...) but about 3hours - 1/2 hour on the street and more than 2 hrs - @ precinct....Well, being questioned by a couple of PD detectives - wasn't that bad as 1/2hr on Mott Ave with cops that some even didn't know what Federal Law is - way worse...I'm I dramatic?
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gintaras B. View Post
    Gerard...what's worse for you: to be hand-cuffed, brought to a precinct and spend there a couple or more hours? or just asked to leave? Or asked to show your ID - I had to show my ID @ Costcos and Paneras maybe 4-5 times in one year period. Detained - it was not a few minutes(as you say...) but about 3hours - 1/2 hour on the street and more than 2 hrs - @ precinct....Well, being questioned by a couple of PD detectives - wasn't that bad as 1/2hr on Mott Ave with cops that some even didn't know what Federal Law is - way worse...I'm I dramatic?
    Actually i was referencing Cathay as being "dramatic" but.........
    Curious, why do you think you are getting cuffed, detained, questioned?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    Curious, why do you think you are getting cuffed, detained, questioned?
    WTF? Seriously...Are you still drunk after Thanksgiving or on some drugs...asking that?
    Last edited by Gintaras B.; 11-29-2014 at 01:20 AM.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gintaras B. View Post
    WTF? Seriously...Are you still drunk after Thanksgiving or on some drugs...asking that?
    You said you were detained at Bayswater. I've been there hundreds of times, including earlier this week, and I've never had a problem. I don't know of anyone else personally who has had a problem, so why was it that you were detained?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
    Why quit now? I feel that you were on the right track by writing letters and getting responses, http://nycaviation.com/forum/threads...ng-Allowed-Now keep at it, be as courteous as you can be to them and the Officers you deal with. But don't give up and quit! 6-7 years ago it was the same down here, there are two other guys I'd see on occasion and they didn't want to try to make it better, didn't like to get hassled by APD, nothing wrong with that, I made it better for myself and others who might come out. Actually saw one of them a while back drive by Landmark then came back, stopped, rolled down window and got a shot thru the fence of some plane. If he's happy with that, I'll be happy for him while I walk to and shoot above the fence and on the ramp on occasion.
    Thank you for the motivation. Even if I quit, in a week, I'll be back probably lol

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69 View Post
    Sorry you feel this way but as you have learned EWR is a airport that you have to treat differently than others. I suggest you take some of the advice and you will be surprised. I know this forum can come across as standoffish but it's also a wealth of info. If you use it you will benefit.
    Yeah, I'm never heading back there anymore. So different than JFK...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose135 View Post
    You said you were detained at Bayswater. I've been there hundreds of times, including earlier this week, and I've never had a problem. I don't know of anyone else personally who has had a problem, so why was it that you were detained?
    Moose...I was there many times too...before I been detained and after. I wasn't alone, there was another spotter and his friend who wasn't even spotting. so, 3 of us were brought to precinct on Mott Ave. Also, Phil said that he was detained there too...
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gintaras B. View Post
    This past summer I've spotted with a spotter from MIA and he told me: "MIA wasn't always spotter friendly airport, but people just kept coming and coming...and one day some of authahorities started thinking: "well, maybe those guys aren't bad"...and things started to change"... And he told me: "That's what you guys here @ JFK(my note: EWR) should do"

    Things would change if local media would cover more about this hobby - planespotting...Problem is not some of PD, but too many paranoid people who call PD if they see spotters.
    PD should understand, that spotters are like extra security - which bad guy would want to do some bad things if they see a bunch of guys with cameras? Another thing is - you never know what you can get in a image frame...Most spotters if see anything suspicious - would give image to PD...I would.



    Bad idea - "I expected to be seen plane spotting and getting a visit from a security car." And I do guess, some get kicked out of T5 because of similar reasons.
    I agree with Nick about staying low at some spots - where we should not pretend like we're photographing some wedding reception...

    CathayA340, don't need to dramatize your experience. Before you quit, maybe think again and you've to change something - it needs flexibility - where and how you spot at different locations.



    Gerard...what's worse for you: to be hand-cuffed, brought to a precinct and spend there a couple or more hours? or just asked to leave? Or asked to show your ID - I had to show my ID @ Costcos and Paneras maybe 4-5 times in one year period. Detained - it was not a few minutes(as you say...) but about 3hours - 1/2 hour on the street and more than 2 hrs - @ precinct....Well, being questioned by a couple of PD detectives - wasn't that bad as 1/2hr on Mott Ave with cops that some even didn't know what Federal Law is - way worse...I'm I dramatic?
    Gintaras, that is very true about the media. If more people knew, things would probably get better. But that would probably not even happen. Oh, why don't we have airport watch programs?
    And sorry for being too dramatic as well.

  13. #43
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathayA340 View Post
    Gintaras, that is very true about the media. If more people knew, things would probably get better. But that would probably not even happen.
    For the most part, the general public wouldn't care, as it doesn't effect them, after all, we're just a bunch of nuts standing out in the cold taking pictures - just ask Al Roker... For those who paid any attention, a number would probably agree that we are doing something suspicious and should be told to leave. There won't be some massive groundswell of public opinion in our favor that will force the police at and around EWR to change their behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by CathayA340 View Post
    Oh, why don't we have airport watch programs?
    Because the Port Authority has repeatedly refused any offers to create such a program in New York.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gintaras B. View Post
    Moose...I was there many times too...before I been detained and after. I wasn't alone, there was another spotter and his friend who wasn't even spotting. so, 3 of us were brought to precinct on Mott Ave. Also, Phil said that he was detained there too...
    the incident Phil is referring to I believe happened almost 10 years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose135 View Post
    For the most part, the general public wouldn't care, as it doesn't effect them, after all, we're just a bunch of nuts standing out in the cold taking pictures - just ask Al Roker... For those who paid any attention, a number would probably agree that we are doing something suspicious and should be told to leave. There won't be some massive groundswell of public opinion in our favor that will force the police at and around EWR to change their behavior.


    Because the Port Authority has repeatedly refused any offers to create such a program in New York.
    That's right...oh well. We tried, we failed, we can't do anything about it. Port Authority stinks

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