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Thread: 2014 Jones Beach Airshow

  1. #76
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    Both Yankee Lady and Quicksilver are guests of the AAM and are not for the Jones Beach Airshow...whether they fly in the airshow is TBD.
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  2. #77
    Senior Member Billbo1970's Avatar
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    Derf,

    It usually depends on the weather & number of people buying flight tickets, right?

  3. #78
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    That is not the issue, Jones Beach may or may not pay for them to fly in the show.
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    That is not the issue, Jones Beach may or may not pay for them to fly in the show.
    You would think they would do it for advertisement purposes and make sure they get the word out that you can buy a ride in the plan. Besides, whats it cost to fly? I would assume just the fuel cost, no?

  5. #80
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puckstopper55 View Post
    You would think they would do it for advertisement purposes and make sure they get the word out that you can buy a ride in the plan. Besides, whats it cost to fly? I would assume just the fuel cost, no?
    From the web sites of a few of the better known B-17 operators, it costs $4K+ an hour to operate one. That's fuel, maintenance, oil, etc.

  6. #81
    Senior Member Billbo1970's Avatar
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    I think they overstate the cost, $4k/hr seems awfully high. Cruising speed consumes 50Gal/hr in fuel, so let's say that's $400. I'm sure the insurance is expensive, but that is a cost whether the plane is flying or parked in the hangar... in fact, more flight time would make the cost/hr lower. I don't know how they calculate that into the flight cost. Let's say insurance is $100k/yr., that works out to roughly $1900/wk. If we say the plane flys 200hrs per year (4hrs/wk on average) that add's $475/hr for insurance.
    So that means it's $3,100+/hr., just in maintenance costs? Just doesn't seem right to me, especially since all of the work is done by volunteers. Sounds like the 'timesheet' effect:
    You're hired to work 40 hours /week. You have to attribute all your hours to some project, even when there's nothing to do. Sounds like the aircraft maintenance engineers do the same thing... plane is costing money even when it's sitting on the ground static.

  7. #82
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billbo1970 View Post
    Cruising speed consumes 50Gal/hr in fuel, so let's say that's $400..
    Per engine - 200 gallons per hour total (See the chart on this page: http://www.azcaf.org/pages/aircraft_...G_FlyFort.html) That's $1,600 by your math.

    From http://www.johnweeks.com/b17active/

    A B-17 will easily burn 200 gallons of fuel per hour, plus about 10 gallons of oil per hour. Consumables and wear items cost an estimated $3,000 per flight hour. For each hour a Flying Fortress spends in the air, ten are spent on the ground in maintenance. An engine overhaul can cost $40,000, and FAA required wing-spar inspections and repairs will cost each Flying Fortress in excess of $100,000.
    Yes, some of the work is done by volunteers - but much of it, especially the larger work, has to be performed by licensed mechanics, often at a maintenance/repair shop, that needs to be paid for. Never mind the cost of replacement parts - when you can find them.

  8. #83
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    Yankee Lady has flown in the show in years past, wonder why this year the show is unable to afford it this year?

  9. #84
    Senior Member Fighting_falcon_51's Avatar
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    Bethpage FCU gives the warbirds a slot in the airshow and a certain amount of funding. It is up to the AAM to secure special guests such as Yankee Lady and Quicksilver. This of course adds a lot of money to the operating costs for the AAM but doesn't necessarily mean increased funding for the warbirds from the airshow.

    Whether or not Yankee Lady or Quicksilver will fly in the show depends on whether they can secure sponsorship dollars, donations, and/or increased funding from the airshow. If they do not fly, still expect the local warbirds to participate in the airshow.
    http://www.kjpgallery.com << Photography Collection
    http://www.nyasinfo.com << Jones Beach Airshow Information (Updates continue in November)

  10. #85
    Senior Member Billbo1970's Avatar
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    Is that # accurate? Are there really 10hrs of maintenance/hr of flight?! Let's assume $1000 of fuel per hr (and that's on the very high side @ $5/gal), and $400 of oil per hour (again, HIGH estimate of $40/gal) so there are additional costs of $2600/flight hr? Wouldn't MORE flight time reduce the /hr costs of the other factors in the equation?

  11. #86
    Senior Member Nick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose135 View Post
    You do know he is a member of the unit that would be providing those assets, right? And that they have participated in every JB show that I can remember? This isn't some guy who heard from his brother's girlfriends' cousin that there might be an F-35 at the show or something.
    Thanks Moose. 👍👍

  12. #87
    Senior Member lijk604's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billbo1970 View Post
    Is that # accurate? Are there really 10hrs of maintenance/hr of flight?! Let's assume $1000 of fuel per hr (and that's on the very high side @ $5/gal), and $400 of oil per hour (again, HIGH estimate of $40/gal) so there are additional costs of $2600/flight hr? Wouldn't MORE flight time reduce the /hr costs of the other factors in the equation?
    Actually Sheltair's price/gal of 100LL today per Air Nav is $7.94/gal. so Moose's fuel number is just about accurate.

  13. #88
    Senior Member Mateo's Avatar
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    There are also things like insurance, paying rent on the hangar, and a reserve for large mx projects like an engine or prop overhaul.

  14. #89
    Senior Member megatop412's Avatar
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    This is looking awesome, I will try to get myself up there

  15. #90
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    Was at Robert Moses filed 2 late this afternoon and was treated to a quick show, couldn't make out what the stunt plane said but it was yellow and blue. Had my camera but didn't get any good shots. Less than a week to go!

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