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Thread: Well, didn't think that hobby can be so dangerous

  1. #16
    Senior Member fk6065's Avatar
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    The mounds are in the confines of the 105 Pct.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    Were your rights ever read to you?
    In fact, no...
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  3. #18
    Senior Member RWB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gintaras B. View Post
    In fact, no...
    Jackpot!
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    PANTS UP, DON'T LOOT!

  4. #19
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    If he wasn't read his rights, he likely wasn't placed under arrest, simply detained for further questioning. There is a very real legal distinction between the two.

  5. #20
    Senior Member RWB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose135 View Post
    If he wasn't read his rights, he likely wasn't placed under arrest, simply detained for further questioning. There is a very real legal distinction between the two.
    I agree 100%, I've been detained while the Officer 'conducted his investigation' but never placed in cuffs and hauled off someplace. I wasn't there with Gintaras but just talking to a lawyer who specializes in civil rights couldn't hurt. I emailed all the details of my event and got an email back the next day, I didn't feel making his house payment with retainer fees was worth it.
    PANTS UP, DON'T LOOT!

  6. #21
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose135 View Post
    If he wasn't read his rights, he likely wasn't placed under arrest, simply detained for further questioning. There is a very real legal distinction between the two.
    Agreed Moose, but, for cuffs to be placed, the bar must be set pretty high. Example: I am accused of spitting in public (illegal yes) and officers show up... if while they investigate they find they have to detain me, there is no real reason I need to be placed in cuffs and hauled off for a detective to question me. So to me, there must have been a much higher threat for the detention to warrant cuffs. Either someone called them in as suspect for something much bigger than taking pictures of the airport or airplanes or something else like trespassing, harassment or something.
    Manny Gonzalez
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  7. #22
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    Agreed Moose, but, for cuffs to be placed, the bar must be set pretty high. Example: I am accused of spitting in public (illegal yes) and officers show up... if while they investigate they find they have to detain me, there is no real reason I need to be placed in cuffs and hauled off for a detective to question me. So to me, there must have been a much higher threat for the detention to warrant cuffs. Either someone called them in as suspect for something much bigger than taking pictures of the airport or airplanes or something else like trespassing, harassment or something.
    It is possible the complainant exaggerated the facts to the 911 operator thus the cuffs. But they should have informed him of the charges when they took him away or at the very least at the station house!!

  8. #23
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    While right about being under arrest versus being questioned, it is still very illegal to forcibly detain someone without suspicion of a clear crime. There was no law implied or specified that may have been broken, so there seems to have been no grounds for questioning to the point of being handcuffed.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  9. #24
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D. View Post
    While right about being under arrest versus being questioned, it is still very illegal to forcibly detain someone without suspicion of a clear crime. There was no law implied or specified that may have been broken, so there seems to have been no grounds for questioning to the point of being handcuffed.
    ...well, from a point of view of planespotting. Who knows what else may have sparked the call to the police. Gintaras only knows of the older couple and dog but maybe other factors were at play?
    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
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  10. #25
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Yes, you're correct, but I was leaning toward it being illegal or baseless since one officer did cite a law that does't exist.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  11. #26
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    Famous Statements by Police to Spotters:

    "Don't you know what's going on?"
    "It is against the law to take pictures of planes"
    "It is against Federal Law to take pictures of planes"
    "I am sorry but just not today, OK?"
    "Look, you HAVE TO LEAVE NOW!!!!" (deep stare as to intimidate me and another spotter while being kicked out of Bayswater during UN Week due to AF1)
    "You can't take pictures of planes" (Oh I am perfectly capable of it, you may mean I may not which is also not correct LOL)
    "What the hell do you think you're doing?" (at EWR while shooting from a not so great location. Not illegal, but dangerous nonetheless )
    "What are those for?" (I was stopped for speeding on Nassau Expwy by N hangar Rd. Two cameras with long lenses on the right front seat... I was held for over :30 minutes while NYPD got Port PD to come over and read me the riot act. But in exchange, the NYPD officer got a civic lesson from PAPD officer abotu our hobby. It was quite interesting to watch the NYPD officer drop his jaw when the port officer and I exchanged bits on the best spots to shoot from without infringing on the property LOL)

    _INSERT YOUR FAVES HERE_

    Disclaimer: BTW, the above exchanges ALL ended up with me moving from the current location AT WORST!
    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
    BRING BACK THE KJFK/KLGA OBSERVATION DECKS

  12. #27
    Administrator Landing Lights's Avatar
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    Gintaras, I'm sorry that this happened to you. Like many of the others, I would strongly encourage you to follow up on this with a supervisor at the 101st precinct. To me, there is a clear overstepping of authority here, and the only way that future occurrences will be prevented is if you speak out about what happened. We do share a respectful and understanding relationship with most of the NYPD, PAPD, and NCPD precincts around JFK, so hopefully this may add one more to the list.

    I would caution against you taking any action against the individuals you believe called you in in the future. They likely live in the area, and spotters starting any sort of confrontation with those who live in the neighborhoods we visit (even if its just calling the cops on them) would not be in our best interest. Once the police are all aware that what we are doing is a-ok, the worst that will happen is that the cops will come by to check us out and move on when they see we're up to no harm. The sad fact is that while we can work to change peoples attitudes about spotters, we will never change them all. However, if they see that their calls are only resulting in the cops not taking any action, they will eventually stop calling.
    Ben Granucci, Wappingers Falls, NY
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  13. #28
    Senior Member Delta777LR's Avatar
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    One of the things I would have maybe done
    PO: Can I see your ID please?
    Citizen: Am i being detained?
    PO: Yes you are.
    Citizen: For what? What laws have i broken?
    PO: Can I just see your ID please
    Citizen: I would like to know what I did that was Illegal?

    thats just an example: Kidding aside.. I always say not to make things worse.

    Gintaras im very sorry for what happened to you there. thats very harsh.. As Manny and all the others said, i would go back to the 101 pct to solve this problem. They had no reason what so ever to even slap cuffs on you. Thats BS. There are gonna be many that will never get the picture that airplane photography from public places are legal. And as for those couple with the dog, that sounds familiar to me, but i will not get detailed about it. In fact back in Sept i was at a public park spotting and I had one guy came up to me asking "Why are you taking pictures of airplanes?" My response "It's my hobby and thats what I enjoy" with a smile on my face. then he takes out his cell phone taking photos of me, and i asked why was he doing that? as he walked away. I did see a NCPD car parked by the LIRR station and i went to them and I told them i was being harassed because I was taking pictures of airplanes, and they said they dont understand why the guy did that but i was allowed to be there to plane spot.. right there I win.

    Gintaras. Just go back to the 101 pct and fight this crap.. We dont need this happening to another one of us here
    Sergio has been a huge Delta Air Lines fan since 1992!!

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  14. #29
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    Ok guys,

    I got in touch with one of friends I knew, who happened to work for NYPD Internal Affairs and told her The Whole Story...
    She didn't suggest to do anything...It goes by precinct - some cops are like @ Bayswaters, some - like @ Brookville Mounds pct...
    I believe her, she worked a long time @ Internal Affairs and she does know something about cops...
    She did tell that cops @ Bayswater OF COURSE over-reacted - just to protect themselves in case something serious has happened...

    Some of conversation I wouldn't want even to post here...for obvious reasons...

    I would go again to Bayswaters, as before...I hope, I wouldn't be bothered and harassed by cops once again....If it happens again...I would get really pissed-off...
    But...If I see some redneck - like guy on saturday walking into park, I might call police myself...I'm 100% sure that that paranoid ******* called police...
    I been there several times without any problems...and all people there, besides aviation hobbyists I met there, fishermen are nice guys too...I did sometimes asked them: "Did you catch anything"...

    I don't want to go about "hot-blooded"...need to cool down and think, what to do next...Like some russian expression: "In the morning you're wiser than in the evening" - kinda...

    So, I'll think about... And I'm not afraid to go there again...
    [URL="http://www.airport-data.com/photographers/gbmax:5834/"]My Aircraft Photos[/URL]

  15. #30
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    Just a thought...What if we could get some badges, let's say, from this site: NYC Aviation, that could be valid at any airport...that all cops would know and accept, just like drivers license?

    Mayber Phil D. could think about?

    Just like I was once talking to some guy @ Brookville location - there's a school - what if they would let us go and take photos of aircrafts from the roof of that building?

    Do I live in a fantasy world or could be it's possible?

    Something like:

    [URL="http://www.airport-data.com/photographers/gbmax:5834/"]My Aircraft Photos[/URL]

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