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Thread: New Article about ORD Airport Watch

  1. #46
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltaA330 View Post
    Ya unfortunately its join or dont spot. Before this program, ORD was a notoriously hard airport to spot. At least there is an option now. Ironically, one of the things we are supposed to report are non-watch members spotting. So just join- its 20 bucks for the background check and then you can spot all you want.
    So if I fly into ORD on a Saturday morning with my $20 and my camera, where do I sign up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D. View Post
    Thank you.

    Back to the topic at hand, I want to clarify that the spots the non-members can't spot at....are they truly public locations? Or are they airport property spots that airport management is allowed to prevent photography from? This is an important variable.

    I have been very busy and wasn't aware that this thread was going so I was just informed of it today and read thru all the posts to catch up. That being said i had some thoughts.

    The rules at ORD are the same as any other airport. Public-location spotting is fine,.... there just aren't many public spots around Chicago O'Hare from which to do planespotting. Private property surrounds nearly the entire perimeter of ORD, with a few exceptions. This does not make it easy to tackle 7 (soon to be 8 and ultimately 10) runways, 14 different approach/departure routes, three arrival streams and 4 departure runways. At any given time at ORD there are 6 active runways in continuous use. JFK (including all the law-enforcement, wildlife and other miscellaneous hassles) is a piece of cake compared to Chicago O'Hare so the program is cool and beneficial.

    As for the vests? Sure, they are probably overkill but it also needs to be realized that they help serve the same purpose as a neighborhood watch. Crime has dropped significantly in the neighborhoods and around the businesses surrounding O'Hare (according to local police departments) since ORD Airport Watch was founded due to the fact that people know that we report ANY suspicious activity. As for terrorism? Yeah, "see something, say something" but we are not swashbuckling the badguys. CNN did a good job but there is room for improvement.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose135 View Post
    So if I fly into ORD on a Saturday morning with my $20 and my camera, where do I sign up?
    You are welcome to visit Aviation Universe. http://aviationuniverse.us/shop/ They will be happy to process your form and information.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerslice View Post
    I visit ORD once or twice a year while visit family and usually spend an afternoon spotting. I've never had a problem in a few locations - all public spots like sidewalks or private businesses that are spotter friendly/tolerant, but from what I remember the O'Hare guys can also park along fences that otherwise say "no parking / no stopping" and pretty much go wherever they want. My understanding, though I haven't been back in almost a year, is that the one or two spots that have been used consistently by spotters over the years are largely left alone...and everything else is pretty heavily enforced.

    Your sentiment though is a long term concern of mine about the watch programs. I've never been fully on board with having to register with a police department to do something that was already perfectly legal to begin with. And I worry that some cities may unnecessarily hassle visitors who aren't in that cities program or locals who choose not to join -- or worse consider spotting/photography something that's only a legal activity if you've registered with the program. That the article used the term "para police" to describe spotters was troubling.
    ORD Airport Watch members are NOT allowed to disobey public signage. We are allowed to go lots of places that non-members are not because of arranged approval. Members are informed of new locations and such. You don't need to be registered with the police for an already legal activity.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviation.High.Guy View Post
    This program has a lot of merit and will hopefully spread. I think the ID lanyards are a great idea. As for the orange vests...? The only way you would catch me wearing one of those is if they gave me ramp access, which you know aint gonna happen.
    The orange vests are overkill if on public property. Also, yes, we are allowed access to ramps sometimes and I have even been on spotting bus tours with the group at Chicago O'Hare as a civilian during pre-arranged spotting events. We drive all over the runways, taxiways, ramps, whatever. The orange vests come in very handy and are mandatory for those events.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mldoc View Post
    Some very nice exposure for planespotting in that article. As for the airport watch program, at its root I think its a great idea though I have a few issues with how they have implemented it in Chicago. My gripes with that particular program aside, any time that law enforcement and planespotters can work as partners instead of adversaries, it is a benefit to both groups.

    And I don't believe for a second that the guy in the 4th picture was using his scanner to "...help spotters monitor emergency responders' radio traffic."
    Planespotting at ORD is legal and requires nothing more than at any other airport as long as you stay on the existing slivers of public property around the airport. As for the 4th picture? Remember. It's a CNN article.

    And yes, i'm writing a lot of replies here since not many other members of ORD Airport Watch are saying anything on this forum. There is some need for clarification on several things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megatop412 View Post
    Yeah I think that's just some kind of a misunderstanding.

    deltaA330, are you serious? If you don't belong to this and you try to spot there they come along and just shut you down? That's crazy. I don't know what's worse, no program @ JFK or mandatory membership in ORD's program. I'm sure you folks have been very helpful with the crime supression aspect of this, it's just that...I do the same thing without a vest. Haven't seen anything suspicious enough to report myself though- trying not to turn into Mr. Foyt here(Cannonball Run)
    1) ORD is surrounded by private property... there are exceptions but they aren't where you want to take pictures from. Using it without permission is trespassing.

    2) Crime and Chicago go hand in hand. We also work as a neighborhood watch and report suspicious activity. Crime has significantly dropped in may areas that we work.

    3) of course we spot at ORD without a vest or I.D. .... if we're on public property.

    4) there's no program at JFK because they have usable public property. Many other airports do too (including yours).

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerslice View Post
    Bingo. THough I also agree the program certainly has merit, this is precisely the problem with the program, and precisely why the article used the term para-police. And precisely why I don't approve of it overall. Spotting should not be an extension of the police. It should not only be acceptable if it's a counter-terrorism activity.
    Study up on locations to planespot at Chicago O'Hare and then come back after you've done your homework. ORD is not your typical international airport. I've been spotting for 17+ years all around the country and with the amount of private property we have at ORD it is needed in order to find locations to legally spot. Private property owners are often unwilling to allow citizens on their property due to the suspicion of crime as it is common is some areas.

    ORD Airport Watch is NOT the police. We simply report what we see. The article is good but does not reflect the program in every way.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lijk604 View Post
    So if I wanted to come out for a day or a weekend to spot, I could not just hook up with one of you guys for "escorted" access...to a pubic area?
    I mean seriously? I am going to get on a plane to fly to your city, to do something that is perfectly legal, and I need to have a background check and pay $20 just to do something I can do for free anywhere else? Please clarify!
    The reason it's "join or don't spot" in most cases is due to the lack of public property to spot from. If you want to go hang out on a sliver of public property here on the south-side of ORD and see what you can see from there you are welcome to. You will be screwed as airplanes use all 7 runways instead of 1. If you want to get serious and see special airplanes you will need to visit private property. This will require you to either join the Watch so we, and everyone else, knows you're OK or you will need to make friends with local business owners who are located underneath a busy approach. Due to the amount of crime in the area, business owners are not interested in making friends sometimes.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by lijk604 View Post
    This is where the ORD Watch group, should talk in their meetings, and offer to be "spotting escorts" for out of towners.
    They take the responsibility for what they signed up for. If they are true spotters, they will know a true spotter from a "bad guy"

    Knowing these facts now, I think this is a horrible program, and feel it was started so that the "Locals" have the spotting areas to themselves.
    We often act as escorts for out-of-towners. I am sometimes busy but I am sure you will find at least one of our 100+ members to go with you.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mldoc View Post
    What type of private property are they? Are they local businesses, residences, or part of the airport itself?

    EDIT: Looking at the always useful SpottersWiki for O'Hare, there is a long list of places listed as 'good.' However, there is also a decent list of 'places to avoid', one of which is a cemetery with the note that, "...if you are seen with a camera the police will tell you you can't take pictures..." It seems to me that law enforcement there is a bit heavy-handed and i perhaps crossing a line involving freedoms.
    This article by SpottersWiki is cool but is not accurate in some respects.
    USG is acceptable. Balmoral is OK as long as you do the article says. Allstate Arena is OK if they are OK with you spotting there (permission required). The old Aviation World parking lot is OK for now but may not be soon.

    Spotting from any of the parking lots is unallowed if it is company (rent-a-car) owned. No areas near south cargo are OK. Don't spot from anywhere near ORD on the northeast side. No spotting is allowed near the airport on the entire north or northwest sides if you are on private property. Spotting at Thornton's on the west side is not allowed. Beeline is OK but you must stay on the roadside. Irving park road is largely off-limits due to south airport construction.

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