New Article about ORD Airport Watch

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm not fully understanding this. So there are public areas that one cannot spot from if you're not a member?

[megatop412]

So if I put a bumper sticker with a picture of a pot leaf on it on my car, that shouldn't raise any suspicions, should it? It shouldn't raise the chances of me being pulled over, or of having my car searched, right?

You know what, for all the times I call bull**it whenever someone says 'we live in a post-9/11 reality now and everyone needs to get used to it' as a response to my complaints about being hassled as a spotter, it's time to turn those tables around. There cannot be a double standard with this. What you put on your car is a big fat advertisement, and you need to go with what most reasonable people will assume. I would think that most reasonable people, 'in this day and age', would find hastily-applied arabic writing to a truck with tinted windows to be of at least moderate suspicion, Texas plates or not. Because that's the world we live in now, right? I'm not saying they're up to no good, that they should be investigated, or that they shouldn't have written on their truck, it is a 'free' country after all. But if you do something that people don't understand, and you use visual stimuli that is associated with terrorism...you kind of have to expect that you may get a reaction. Then again, now that the government has finally come clean about ordering our phone calls to be searched for ties to terrorist groups, we don't have to worry about such petty things

[moose135]

So if I put a bumper sticker with a picture of a pot leaf on it on my car, that shouldn't raise any suspicions, should it? It shouldn't raise the chances of me being pulled over, or of having my car searched, right?

No, it shouldn't. A bumper sticker isn't probable cause of the commission of a crime, and neither is Arabic writing on the back of your pickup.

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm really not pointing fingers at any in particular, but I feel this needs to be said...

I agree that NEITHER should be able to allow probable cause to search your vehicle, but I don't think the two compare, because pot is illegal. Being Arabic is not. There's nothing wrong with being from the Middle East or speaking Arabic or being Muslim. There are many Muslim speaking Americans who have fought and died for this country just the same as the white guys and other races.

Seeing Arabic writing and thinking that there is a threat or concern to be investigating is blatant racism. As spotters, the same way that we should not need to be searched for our legal hobby, Muslims/Arabs should not be looked at the same way just because of a displayed language. The difference between the two is that one of them is blatantly racist, and the other is ignorance toward a lesser known hobby.

[wunaladreamin]

Very well stated Phil and Moose.

[PhilDernerJr]

Thank you.

Back to the topic at hand, I want to clarify that the spots the non-members can't spot at....are they truly public locations? Or are they airport property spots that airport management is allowed to prevent photography from? This is an important variable.

[deltaA330]

The spots ORD watch members spot at are NOT public, they are private property. USG is the only public spot good for spotting around ORD.

[Cary]

The spots ORD watch members spot at are NOT public, they are private property. USG is the only public spot good for spotting around ORD.

I've read in other places, statements like:
"in the Chicago area you are free to spot at any of the areas around the airfield without being a member"

These two quotes seem pretty contradictory.

[Landing Lights]

The spots ORD watch members spot at are NOT public, they are private property. USG is the only public spot good for spotting around ORD.

What type of private property are they? Are they local businesses, residences, or part of the airport itself?

EDIT: Looking at the always useful SpottersWiki for O'Hare, there is a long list of places listed as 'good.' However, there is also a decent list of 'places to avoid', one of which is a cemetery with the note that, "...if you are seen with a camera the police will tell you you can't take pictures..." It seems to me that law enforcement there is a bit heavy-handed and i perhaps crossing a line involving freedoms.

[Cary]

Here is some clarification for this thread. An ORD Airport Watch board member has stated that they "do not tell people ever that they cannot spot if they are not a member" and "do not tell them that they need to be escorted by a member". The likelihood of being questioned is likely to go up if you don't have an ORD Airport Watch vest on, but "there is no exclusion for non-members".

[Landing Lights]

Well that makes me feel a little better. I have no problem being questioned as long as the interaction is courteous, professional, takes a reasonable amount of time, and is done with a full understanding of the applicable rules/laws.

[megatop412]

No, it shouldn't. A bumper sticker isn't probable cause of the commission of a crime, and neither is Arabic writing on the back of your pickup.

It was a rhetorical question

[O'HareAviation]

You need to be a member of ORD Airport Watch only if you want to do planespotting at a privately-owned location where ownership only allows spotting on the premises of their property if you are a member. Because Chicago O'Hare is surrounded by businesses and roads pretty much all the way around, finding spotting locations that are public can be difficult.

[O'HareAviation]

There are some public areas around Chicago O'Hare where there is no need for you to be wearing an I.D. However, O'Hare is pretty much surrounded by private property which makes spotting difficult at times because businesses, railroad property, etc. are not inclined to give you permission if they don't know who you are. The program allows for arrangements to be made where spotters can go take video or pictures from approved private businesses' property. You do not need to be wearing an I.D. if you wish to spot at one of the public places like USG.

What makes ORD difficult for spotting is that there are so many directions for takeoffs or landings and in order to catch specific airplanes a multiplicity of spotting areas are needed and not all runways have public areas to spot them.

As for heavy-handed law enforcement? Welcome to Chicago.

[O'HareAviation]

Here is some clarification for this thread. An ORD Airport Watch board member has stated that they "do not tell people ever that they cannot spot if they are not a member" and "do not tell them that they need to be escorted by a member". The likelihood of being questioned is likely to go up if you don't have an ORD Airport Watch vest on, but "there is no exclusion for non-members".

That is correct.