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Thread: National Air Cargo 744 Crash at Bagram

  1. #31
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    That video is just insane.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviation.High.Guy View Post
    Let's see if the news media has a need for it now that there are graphic visuals that can "boost the ratings". Unfortunately, it's always about the ratings.
    You called it!! Once the video went viral its looks like the media being is picking it up !!

  3. #33
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    I can't even imagine what is going through the mind of those pilots ... I know I would be seriously TRYING to contain my rear end instead of trying to get out of whatever condition the plane was in. They looked like they were trying to power through it? OMG that is just insane sick video :(

    I wonder how heavy she was... it looks very very fast drop as if she was loaded. Then also the fuel load.. how far were they going?
    Last edited by gonzalu; 04-30-2013 at 09:44 PM.
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  4. #34
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Just aweful video. Neverthought I'd see a parge as large as that jsut stop in midair and almost stand on its tail.

    RIP

    Just shocking and RIP to those onboard.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    I keep playing back over and over... from the moment it stalls until it hits the ground, it TERRIFIES me. I get chills... Someone just told me on FB that they believe the load shifted in the cargo hold enough to cause an unbalance. Combine it with the necessary steep takeoff angles due to security and you have a formula for disaster...
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  6. #36
    Senior Member megatop412's Avatar
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    I just watched the video on youtube and felt sick watching them struggling with it, and it just hanging there for a few seconds. If nothing else, this footage can serve as a training video for the consequences of improperly tying cargo down(if that is what really happened, it does look an awful lot like it was).

    That said, there are many tragic air crash clips on youtube which depict crews meeting a violent end that are not taken down. I don't see what makes this clip so different that it should be pulled.

  7. #37
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    I first saw the video this morning and is heartbreaking and very hard to watch. As someone who has witnessed two accidents actually happen, 1 fatal (US 405, the F-28 at LGA) in 1992 and 1 non fatal (DL 554 MD88 at LGA in 1996) it certainly brings back bad memories. With the F-28 the fireball I saw I would estimate was about 8 stories high and though not as intense as what we all saw today it still reminded me of it. One small bright spot, it does appear there were 7 onboard not the original 8 that was reported. From what I understand, it was 5 pilots, a mechanic and a loadmaster, the latter two being common on Charter flights of US carriers both Freighters and Passenger aircraft operating for the military At least they died doing what they loved and serving their country but man what a horrific way for life to end. I understand National is a very tight nit family like company I am sure many are having difficulty dealing with this.

    RIP to the Crew of N949CA

    LGA777

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    ... Someone just told me on FB that they believe the load shifted in the cargo hold enough to cause an unbalance. Combine it with the necessary steep takeoff angles due to security and you have a formula for disaster...
    Isn't usually normal AOA about 18-23' for take-offs? That looks like 35-40' range and the pressure on the loads must be tremendous. What a tragic chain of events. R.I.P. God Bless.

    Raj

  9. #39
    Senior Member Delta777LR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LGA777 View Post
    I first saw the video this morning and is heartbreaking and very hard to watch. As someone who has witnessed two accidents actually happen, 1 fatal (US 405, the F-28 at LGA) in 1992 and 1 non fatal (DL 554 MD88 at LGA in 1996) it certainly brings back bad memories. With the F-28 the fireball I saw I would estimate was about 8 stories high and though not as intense as what we all saw today it still reminded me of it. One small bright spot, it does appear there were 7 onboard not the original 8 that was reported. From what I understand, it was 5 pilots, a mechanic and a loadmaster, the latter two being common on Charter flights of US carriers both Freighters and Passenger aircraft operating for the military At least they died doing what they loved and serving their country but man what a horrific way for life to end. I understand National is a very tight nit family like company I am sure many are having difficulty dealing with this.

    RIP to the Crew of N949CA

    LGA777
    I thought the USAir 405 crash was due to icing. That DL MD-88 incident i remembered too. Also dont forget about the Air Ontario F-28 crash in 1989, that was similar to US405 also not to mention that there was I believe a crash that had to do with weight balance in 12/12/85 at Gander involving a DC-8 which i think was Arrow Air carrying American Soldiers aboard, that flight also stalled just after take off from Gander.

    The video of N949CA was very disbelief, just watching how it stalled at 1200ft and dippping down to the ground like that, I watched it a few times with a friend of mine today and she could not believe how bad that was. RIP to those aboard N949CA. God be with them
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    I can't even imagine what is going through the mind of those pilots ... I know I would be seriously TRYING to contain my rear end instead of trying to get out of whatever condition the plane was in. They looked like they were trying to power through it? OMG that is just insane sick video :(
    In that situation, your rear-end would be the LEAST of your worries. You would be just happier than hell to have the opportunity to clean out that seat cushion and throw away your underwear.

    My guess is that the guys on the controls were doing everything they could to get that airplane flying again. I suspect the columns were pushed as far forward as they could and the power levers were fire walled. They probably weren't hearing anything, and their field of vision was probably fixed on the attitude and airspeed indicators. I'm sure they fought as hard as they could until the very end.

    For a very interesting discussion on what happens to your body during periods of high stress I highly recommend the books "On Combat" by David Grossman, and "Extreme Fear" by Jeff Wise (which I just finished reading today). Both have very interesting analyses of what happens to your body physiologically during periods of high stress. Grossman gives specifics as to what happens at different heart-rate levels--auditory exclusion, loss of fine motor skills beginning about 140 beats/minute, tunnel vision, and at 180 bpm, let's just say, s#%t happens and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's your system literally "lightening the load" so you can run faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    I wonder how heavy she was... it looks very very fast drop as if she was loaded. Then also the fuel load.. how far were they going?
    Stalling from a pitch angle that high, it wouldn't matter if it was loaded or not...the drop would look fast regardless.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CX777 View Post
    Isn't usually normal AOA about 18-23' for take-offs? That looks like 35-40' range and the pressure on the loads must be tremendous. What a tragic chain of events. R.I.P. God Bless.

    Raj
    I think you're confusing pitch attitude with angle of attack...definitely apples and oranges. The pitch attitude would differ depending on weight--the heavier the airplane the lower the pitch attitude on the initial climb. I know with a light 757-200 and a full-power takeoff, a pitch of 20-25 degrees is not unreasonable. A heavy 757-300 and 10-15 is about right. We don't have a true AOA gauge like a fighter does, but I'm guessing the AOA in both scenarios is about the same, while the pitch attitude is very different.

    I'm not familiar enough with the 747 series to tell you what a normal takeoff pitch would be. Also, it sounds like they have a special departure, similar to Orange county (although for high-speed lead abatement, not noise abatement), where they pitch up a little higher than normal.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    Forty+ years ago a Navy C-2 stalled and crashed after launching from USS Ranger (CVA-61). Cargo shift was blamed for that accident and if you compare the video with the Bagram crash they're very similar.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=OlDmMwI9cik
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  13. #43
    Senior Member Nick's Avatar
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    From my time at Bagram I can tell you that the take-off angle I witnessed was steeper than I was used to back home.

  14. #44
    Senior Member 727C47's Avatar
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    yeah,we are always in a hurry to leave, but that had zero to do with what happened.
    The beehive hummm of the JT9D and GE CF680C2,the thunder of the JT8D-17,the rumble of the PW1830 and the high ,thin whine of the PW 545A are all music to my ears!

  15. #45
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    Just got a bit more information in my inbox today that may or may not be known already. This is unverified:

    N949CA Boeing 747-428BCF SN: 25630 LN:960

    Prior to the actual crash the crew called cargo shift on the radio. They had 20-40k freight inside on takeoff that at least one piece shifted back with nothing to stop it from crashing into the bulk head. If they had more altitude they could have recovered. An ugly load with an ugly result. May this crew rest in piece.

    1. National Flight NCR102 was en route to Dubai from Camp Bastian and had stopped to refuel at Bagram Air Base.
    2. The cargo contained within the aircraft was properly loaded and secured, and had passed all necessary inspections prior to departing Camp Bastian.
    3. The aircraft landed safely and uneventfully in Bagram.
    4. No additional cargo or personnel was added during the stop in Bagram, and the aircraft's cargo was again inspected prior to departure.

    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
    BRING BACK THE KJFK/KLGA OBSERVATION DECKS

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