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Thread: What Airport (even if not practical) Needs Expansion Most?

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    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    What Airport (even if not practical) Needs Expansion Most?

    Not renovation necessarily, but in terms of expanding to meet demand or size constraints, what airport do you think needs it most? Even if it's not practical to really rebuild it and it would never happen.
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    Senior Member megatop412's Avatar
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    There has been so much discussion about LHR and the debated "fifth" runway it's hard to deny that it's overcongested. They're even talking about a whole new airport at the mouth of the Thames.

    In the US, I would say either LGA or DCA

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    Senior Member lijk604's Avatar
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    PHL...they may have 2 main runways and 2 "commuter" runways, but when bad weather moves in, PHL is the first one to post delays.

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    Moderator Matt Molnar's Avatar
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    LHR is the most needy in the world, I think. Doesn't seem like it'll happen, though.

    LGA is a close second, even just for safety issues with the intersecting runways that end in the water, nevermind the congestion.
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    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    JFK... needs at least one more runway... 31R should be 31C and then create 31R to the right of it :-)
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    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    LGA and DCA are always popular ones for this kind of topic, and rightly so. I think their biggest limitation is that both have perimeter rules because of larger nearby airports. Atleast DCA has more exemptions allowed than LGA does. LGA has little forward progress.

    So in terms of fixups, LGA needs it badly. The more I travel, the more I see how terrible LGA's central terminal is. Those concourses are just the worst. Their runway config is also pretty terrible. They need to extend/shift 4/22 into the town so it doesn't intersect.

    In terms of runways, BOS is such a mess. I feel like someone needs to play pick-up sticks there and remove a couple, shift a couple.

    Quote Originally Posted by lijk604 View Post
    PHL...they may have 2 main runways and 2 "commuter" runways, but when bad weather moves in, PHL is the first one to post delays.
    I have always pitied PHL for being smack between NYC and DC...I think it's the busy airspace that kills them.
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    Senior Member yankees368's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    JFK... needs at least one more runway... 31R should be 31C and then create 31R to the right of it :-)
    If they were to do this, the new 31R would pretty much be right outside my kitchen window. I am in full support of this plan.
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    Administrator Landing Lights's Avatar
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    I think LGA is really constrained by its geographic location. The only real space to expand into would be via landfill into Flushing Bay. That said some of the terminals need serious (as in tear down and rebuild) work. The "low cost carrier" terminal where WN, B6, F9, and FL board is particularly overloaded, though I'm sure that other terminals aren't much better. Other than a terminal overhaul, I don't see much ever being done there in terms of runways.

    I think JFK is the one that is seriously in need of a wholesale expansion. It is the airport in the region that is most in demand, especially globally. The question is whether or not there is enough gate space available if a 5th runway is added to support the additional traffic.
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    SFO. For a city that gets a lot of fog, it's ridiculous that simultaneous parallel approaches cannot be conducted in IMC.
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    Senior Member Speedbagel_001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yankees368 View Post
    If they were to do this, the new 31R would pretty much be right outside my kitchen window. I am in full support of this plan.

    Don't forget about JFK's former STOL runway 32/14!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Mateo's Avatar
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    Heathrow, without a doubt. Tokyo-Haneda is probably another one. In the US, LaGuardia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mldoc View Post
    I think LGA is really constrained by its geographic location and hard core "NIMBY" under the affected flight paths in Queens (and likely da' Bronx) for any new runways.

    Edited for accuracy. I guess the NIMBY's and environmentalists would be major obstacles for any runway expansions and additions at any airport, though.
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    Member clear_prop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISP Pilot View Post
    SFO. For a city that gets a lot of fog, it's ridiculous that simultaneous parallel approaches cannot be conducted in IMC.
    SFO's 1-2-3 plan is so annoying. 1 cloud + 2 planes = 3 hour delays

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    DCA is capped at 67 movements an hour, but only sees about 52 flights and hour and they don’t really have any delay issues because of this. The unused slots are for general aviation aircraft which have all but disappeared since 9/11. Those most likely won’t be back, so they should use those remaining slots for commercial planes. Not sure why they don’t do that. At least allow up to 60 slots for commercial craft.

    With HND, they have more than enough capacity, but Japanese airport authorities are really conservative and keep the slot number really low. Maybe it’s to favor local airlines or because of NIMBYs…who knows? HND has four runways now, which all are well-spaced, and is capped at 405K movements a year. It could easily see more traffic.

    My answer would be LHR. The airport is completely full, they use fairly large aircraft, have virtually no domestic flights and it’s still the most delay-plagued airport in the world. Demand will only continue to rise in the future. None of the other area airports can accept any overflow. LGW is congested enough with its one runway and airlines don’t want to fly there, STN’s facilities aren’t adequate and it’s too far and LTN is even less adequate than STN. Even MAN is a bad reliever airport and has a poor record of supporting long-haul flights.

    In the US, it’s LGA for sure. The whole airport needs to be revamped and its demand is massive throughout the day.

    I’d also say JFK because of increasing NYC-area demand and it being the only local airport capable of any sort of expansion, although the problem is more because of the airspace. They can’t even use two runways to full potential. If the airspace design remains the same and they add another 13-31 runway above 13L-31R, I’m sure that will help greatly and would be able to satisfy area demand for a long time to come.

    And I’m surprised nobody has mentioned EWR, which has even worse delays than LGA. Their runway configuration blows.

    I also add SFO to the list because of the crappy runway configuration.

    Speaking of LGA NIMBYs, there’s a protest movement in my neighborhood about the new LGA take-off patterns. I noticed planes taking-off a lot lower over my neighborhood than in the past because of some new departure procedures. Anyone know anything about it?

    And with PHL, despite being between NYC’s and DC’s airspace, it handles way more movements than any of the NYC or DC airports. Sure, it gets delayed heavily and I feel its delay issues don’t get nearly enough attention, but they sure handle a lot of flights. For all the talk of their location being the cause of the delays, it seems more like it’s because they have a bad runway configuration that handles way too many flights!

    Now, we should start a topic for which additional airports should be slot controlled!

  15. #15
    Senior Member Idlewild's Avatar
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    All four (I'm throwing in Teterboro) NYC area airports. Maybe if NYS & NJ built high-speed rails going from the metro area to Stewart and McGuire (if bought out) the expansion demands could be filled
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