JFK Takeoff Routines

[Vinny Ohare]

This is what I am talking about. Just a quick thing I put together. Sometimes the plane heads more towards right over the control tower.

[PhilDernerJr]

I only see one path so I don't know what you're comparing it to, but it all depends on what departure point they are headed towards in that case it seems.

[RED]

Phil, I believe there is a 2 minute rule for back to back departures heading towards the same intersection fix. So instead of wasting valuable time, JFK implements that WAVEY/WHITE shuffle, correct? First time I’ve heard of the shuffle. I learn something new every day!

Vinny, I think aircraft making the tighter turns, that end up having them fly over the airport, might be headed towards the North Gate. This gate consists of the following ‘exit’ fixes: COATE, SAX, NEION, HAAYS, GAYEL, and DEEZZ. All of which are used for flights headed West/North.

Here’s a cool tool that paints a better picture when discussing climbs/gates/runway configs etc.

http://tfmlearning.fly.faa.gov/NY_Ai...Y_Airspace.swf

ARR ILS 31R/31L, DEP 31L - Is what I believe you’re describing. Dotted lines for departures and solid for arrivals.

Cheers.

[PhilDernerJr]

The WHITE/WAVEY shuffle is what allows them to utilize two departure runways at once...not for planes departing on the same runway. It does help separation times when the departing aircraft are departing to different departure fixes, but that has nothing to do with the WHITE/WAVEY shuffle. The absolute minimum separation for departures will be 109 seconds. But if three departing aircraft in a row are going to the same fix, then it can add to their separation beyond the 109...could be 3 minutes or more depending on the aircraft type. If those three planes are departing to RBV, DEEEZ and WAVEY, then they can look to keep those separation times lower.

Side note, WHITE is heavily used for HPN departures, so when JFK uses the shuffle, dispatchers should file their HPN departures out on BIGGY.

RED, that's a great link....great visual for all of the fixes. The shuffle would be used for 31L and 22R as departures, for example. The diagram doesn't show the shuffle exactly, because departing aircraft may be filed to any number of fixes.

Hope what I am explaining makes sense!

[Vinny Ohare]

Thanks Phil

Kind of funny that I haven't seen the pattern I was seeing since I posted here. Hmmm

Thanks for your detailed explanation, much appreciated.

[Speedbird1]

I bought aeronautical charts but can't read them as I've had no training but I often see 31L departures from where I live in Sheepshead Bay. When I see aircraft passing over my building, I am sure they are RBV departures heading to the west. I realize other departures as well but mostly RBV. They proceed climbing towards Sandy Hook.The aircraft that make a sharp turn east over Jamaica Bay are heading for Europe or Asia. This is a bit simplistic but it serves my purposes. As a point of reference, I often saw 3 or 4 Concordes depart 31L in the 80's and 90's. Only once did a Concorde pass over my building, it was heading to MEX.

[PhilDernerJr]

Some of those "east" departures that you see which are European flights, can also be Caribbean or Florida if weather in the DC area is bad and we need to route planes out over the ocean to go south. These are known as "AZEZU" routes...which is a point that is a bit out there off Long Island. Unfortunately adds a lot of fuel (and cost) to a flight.