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Thread: Healthcare Stance

  1. #16
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megatop412 View Post
    the electoral college system
    It still is the best way to pick a president. If we went to popular vote California would pick our leader and the small and less populated states would have no say.


    The affordable care act was billed as a way to lower the cost of health care and give it to everyone. When it really was wealth redistribution. Instead of tackling the high cost of health care by doing things like letting people go over state lines they just changed the people who are paying for it. I think most of the bill had some good things but the mandate makes it toxic.

    This is just going to be another drain on an already fragile economy. With unemployment likely to spike now since companies will not hire until they see who wins in November.

    Also, "real" health care reform can never be achieved without TORT reform. Lowering health care costs can not be achieved until this happens.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  2. #17
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    I'm not understand the mandate. It's $95 a YEAR in your TAXES if you don't have insurance, right? That's not too bad to me, especially if I'm making enough money to file taxes. For those too poor for insurance, they are probably too poor to pay taxes too and it won't be a huge deal.

    We'll see if it truly does lower healthcare costs for the rest of us, though.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  3. #18
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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  4. #19
    there's also a ton of other taxes in there, its not just one small penalty.
    http://www.atr.org/full-list-obamaca...s-listed-a7010

  5. #20
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Mattimus, your link has a lot of bias and isn't even clear where they get their info from.

    Nick, that's good info, but the exemptions need to clarified, because if people with a good amount of money are being charged a few hundred bucks a year, then it's not as big of a deal. They are trying to make it out to be as though people with only $4 to their name are going to be charged $1k, but I don't think that'll be happening.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D. View Post
    Mattimus, your link has a lot of bias and isn't even clear where they get their info from.
    Its all in the bill, if you really want to read the whole 2500+ pages of it, http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/ and go down to certified full text versions. I assume the revenue amounts that they had listed are just estimates , but each of those taxes or whatever you want to call them is in there.

  7. #22
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    I doubt anyone, ANYONE has actually read the 2500 page bill.

    HOw can a country that used to guarantee freedoms now force what an individual chooses to buy?????

    I was asked a few days ago:

    "What would you offer as an alternative solution to the problem that too many in the middle (not so poor, not so rich) are without any form of access to preventive care?"

    -Easy. Allow them to talk to their doctors and work it out. Negotiate fees with your doctor directly. Oh wait, apparently its illegal for a doctor to charge an insurance company different fees that it would a patient...Lets start by playing with that law...

    "Or that are afraid of even emergency care for fear of the costs?" Again, work it out directly.


    Want to pass meaningful legislation and lower healthcare costs?

    -Put an end to frivolous lawsuits started by ambulance chasers that increase malpractice premiums.

    -Medicaid should have fees incorporated. $10 fee per visit.

    -preventive care starts with right choices.


    You know, I would love for there to be universal healthcare. But my folks and I didn't come from silver spoons. WE worked our asses off and I still do. Yet its amazing that as I am now furthering in my career, the more I make, the more the government and its "impoverished children' want their hands in our pockets. Everyday I encounter abuses to the welfare system from patrons of the welfare system. These people claim welfare and yet have things and buy things that I do not have. How is it they can afford these things? Its abusive.....and I truly see Obamacare as an extension of the MD system.

    A tale of 2 patients:

    one has no insurance, always pays cash, runs 4 businesses (dealing with exotic dance), employs over 100 staff;

    one is on medicaid, lives in a gated community, and has a collectible car collection, has broken or lost his glasses 4 timesin the last 12 months but knows he is covered so gets a new pair of glasses each time. (You paid for them)

    Who above helped their country most?

    Manny, I am too young and naive to claim to understand it all. But my eyes see a lot.
    I live a fairly conservative (read: non-wasteful) lifestyle and try to do right by others. Yet in my business, I have to watch my back because either on EOBs or on the radio, you hear ads about, "If you think your doctor is committing fraud, call XXX...." Yet who do WE call when we see DAILY abuses to the current welfare system in place???

    Adding a new universal system is only destined to add more cost and complexity.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  8. #23
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Mario is so very right about the problems he stated....and those are just SOME of the problems.

    I am FOR universal healthcare...but we need many thigns in place to prevent abuse and to prevent insurance companies from raping us....which has been happening hardcore. I even have a couple doctors that abuse the system and milk my own insurance (not my eye doc of course! ;) )
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  9. #24
    Moderator Matt Molnar's Avatar
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    There's always going to be fraud whether the gov't is involved or not.

    For what it's worth, while there are Medicare/Medicaid beneficiaries who take advantage of the system, there are very few people who go to the doctor just because it's free. The bigger-yet-easier-to-solve seems to be fraud among health care providers who rack up millions for everything from fraudulent dental x-rays to fake ambulance rides. Hopefully with more federal oversight, the state-level corruption which allows this might be at least slightly reduced.
    Last edited by Matt Molnar; 07-01-2012 at 11:47 PM.
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
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  10. #25
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Manny, now that I had a real moment to sit down and ponder....


    Rather than government mandating coverage, it should create a real and open market, which we don't have now. We should be able to:

    • purchase coverage across state lines - buy where it is cheaper, creating market forces to lower prices
    • purchase "catastrophic" health insurance, which is what insurance was meant for - the big unkown expenses, not for contraceptives and other politically sensitive government mandates
    • have tax benefits for all insurance - not only on the job, but for all citizens who purchase insurance
    • have greater availability of HSA's and FSA's, which empower citizens to understand costs, and thereby reduce overutilization of services
    • reform medical liabilities (tort reform) - whereby procedures are done in wasteful ways for defensive purposes by physicians fearful of lawsuits
    I can go on ... but basically, adding another entitlement to our drowning economy is unsustainable.

    As we approach 16 Trillion in debt and over 100 Trillion in unfunded mandates, we simply need to rethink how we allocate our resources. We need to empower citizens to determine which services are important to them, based on the market system which has made America great. EMPOWER, not ENTITLE.




    And remember this November: if you care about your children, nieces, nephews and our nation's future, we need to repeal Obamacare.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  11. #26
    Moderator Matt Molnar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirrodie View Post
    Manny, now that I had a real moment to sit down and ponder....

    Rather than government mandating coverage, it should create a real and open market, which we don't have now. We should be able to:

    • purchase coverage across state lines - buy where it is cheaper, creating market forces to lower prices
    • purchase "catastrophic" health insurance, which is what insurance was meant for - the big unkown expenses, not for contraceptives and other politically sensitive government mandates
    • have tax benefits for all insurance - not only on the job, but for all citizens who purchase insurance
    • have greater availability of HSA's and FSA's, which empower citizens to understand costs, and thereby reduce overutilization of services
    • reform medical liabilities (tort reform) - whereby procedures are done in wasteful ways for defensive purposes by physicians fearful of lawsuits
    I can go on ... but basically, adding another entitlement to our drowning economy is unsustainable.

    As we approach 16 Trillion in debt and over 100 Trillion in unfunded mandates, we simply need to rethink how we allocate our resources. We need to empower citizens to determine which services are important to them, based on the market system which has made America great. EMPOWER, not ENTITLE.


    And remember this November: if you care about your children, nieces, nephews and our nation's future, we need to repeal Obamacare.
    These things can all be done in addition to Obamacare, they are not mutually exclusive.

    Your argument is it's too expensive. You know what else is expensive? Education. Should government stop paying for that?
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
    All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
    I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9

  12. #27
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GothamSpotter View Post
    Your argument is it's too expensive. You know what else is expensive? Education. Should government stop paying for that?
    No but we don't need superintendents making half a million a year either. I know education in important but it's become another source of entitlement thanks to the unions. We need to be doing it cheaper and have to do away with Tenure. Then we can get some reform.

    Mario is right. Obamacare has to go. Will be interesting to see if we get a wave election this fall.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

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