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Thread: Queens Chronicle - JFK Not Expanding Yet

  1. #1
    Senior Member Zee71's Avatar
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    Queens Chronicle - JFK Not Expanding Yet

    Here is a link to an article that was in the local Queens Chronicle paper regarding JFK this past week.

    http://www.qchron.com/editions/queen...c345c291d.html
    Mark
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    Senior Member 727C47's Avatar
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    expand EWR,leave the Bay alone.
    The beehive hummm of the JT9D and GE CF680C2,the thunder of the JT8D-17,the rumble of the PW1830 and the high ,thin whine of the PW 545A are all music to my ears!

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    Moderator Matt Molnar's Avatar
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    Never going to happen.
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
    All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
    I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9

  4. #4
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    I can't see that ever happening.
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    Sooner or later, you're going have to expand this airport to accommodate increasing traffic and alleviate delays. If you don't, you'll endanger the economy. Just look what's going on in the UK with the LHC 3rd runway debacle. Already, the Conservative government has changed their tune and admitted it was a mistake to oppose a third runway.

    As for the EWR expansion proposals, I read the RPAs report and the EWR proposals are not as viable and they involve tearing down some of the terminals. It would cost way more money and wouldn't have that much better effect on capacity compared to expanding JFK.

  6. #6
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Delays at JFK are not caused by short or not-enough runways. Expanding will not do anything. Airspace redesign is the only thing that will decrease delays at major airports.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  7. #7
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    I don't disagree with you that airspace is the main culprit with JFK. I am sure they could use all 4 runways simultaneously if LGA didn't impede. But I don't see motion to change the airspace design in a prompt manner and for the time being, it looks like most of the Queens/Brooklyn airspace will favor LGA.

    I do disagree, however, that adding a runway won't make any difference. If you add another 13/31, you're adding another arrival flow without impeding departures if you're using the 31s or another departure flow without impacting arrivals if you're using the 13s. That has to amount to something.

  8. #8
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    LGA doesn't have as much to do with it as you may think, and adding more runways doesn't solve any problems at all. It just doesn't work like that. Add moderate wind and you lose usage of certain runways. More runways only helps depending on where the terminals are located....and adding one in the bay would do nothing by increase taxi waiting while trying to cross other runways.

    Keep in mind that JFK only has major delay problems in heavy weather...and there isn't much that can be done about that, except revamping taxiways instead of more runways, as it's the line to takeoff and get back to the gate that creates trouble.

    It's a huge misconception that "more runways" is a fix for delay woes. Not so.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D. View Post
    ...and adding one in the bay would do nothing by increase taxi waiting while trying to cross other runways.
    How is that different than what you see in ATL where arrivals always have to cross the departing runway to get to the terminals? Or even worse, PHL, where the departing aircraft have to cross the arriving runway to takeoff?

  10. #10
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    It's all about how the entire airport is laid out. Some can have 6 rwys and handle it because of advanced planning when the airport was first built. Others, like JFK, are adding to an old design and it's not practical to bulldoze the entire thing and rebuild optimally.

    Your question supports my argument, because PHL is one of the first airports in this region to turn to crap the moment things get congested. More runways will not help.

    I can't explain it much further without showing you diagrams of what more runways would and would not do to taxiing and local airspace.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  11. #11
    Senior Member AirtrafficController's Avatar
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    It also has to do with the complexity of the NY Class Bravo Airspace as well. Atlanta's, Los Angeles', Denver's, Dallas', Houston's air traffic flows in an orderly and expeditious most of the time for a variety of reasons. Yes the airspace is designed in a way in which departure fixes and arrival routes are tailored for that airport. Here in the NY Class Bravo airspace, this is not the case. We have three major airport all nestled in a 30 mile radius with small GA reliever airport nestled in between (KHPN, KTEB).
    It is fairly common for all three major airports to share common departure fixes. (COATE, MERIT, WHITE, etc.)
    There are also limitations in which runway configuration each airport can conduct which will adversely effect the other airport's traffic flow.
    Throw in some severe weather and increased air traffic on Thursdays and Fridays (especially near holidays), and you have congested volume delays.
    There is no other airspace in the world so complex and filled with air traffic demand as the NY Terminal airspace.
    Aspires to become an Air Traffic Controller at Kennedy Tower.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member megatop412's Avatar
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    Phil since you understand this issue can I ask you to take a little roadtrip down here to Philly to explain to these people that destroying Hog Island Rd(where coincidentally we like to take pictures from)to build another 9/27 is not the answer some think it is

    Thank You

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