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Thread: Delays not improving after runway work at JFK.

  1. #1
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Delays not improving after runway work at JFK.

    http://www.aviationpros.com/news/106...nway-work-done

    Another runway needs to be built? Hmmmm.

    Discuss
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

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    Senior Member Zee71's Avatar
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    We definitely need another runway which is closer to HoBe
    Mark
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    Senior Member Speedbagel_001's Avatar
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    Didn't JFK (or Idelwild) previously have additional runways, or perhaps different runways than now? I know that up until recently, there was a 14-32 that was very short. But I see some evidence of possible larger runways (2, maybe 4) when checking the satellite view on Google.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee71 View Post
    We definitely need another runway which is closer to HoBe
    That would be sweet. And make it strickly for departures ONLY. This way there isn't another runway to try and cover when watching arrivals
    Steve Furst

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    Senior Member AirtrafficController's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbagel_001 View Post
    Didn't JFK (or Idelwild) previously have additional runways, or perhaps different runways than now? I know that up until recently, there was a 14-32 that was very short. But I see some evidence of possible larger runways (2, maybe 4) when checking the satellite view on Google.
    That was a STOL runway back in the day. Currently it is taxiway echo.

    I don't see another runway being built at Kennedy any time soon. There is simply no real estate to expand. PANYNJ cannot expand into Jamaica Bay due to a variety of laws and contract agreements.
    Aspires to become an Air Traffic Controller at Kennedy Tower.
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    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee71 View Post
    We definitely need another runway which is closer to HoBe
    Two questions to answer about adding another runway at JFK:

    1 - Where do you put it? Remember, Jamaica Bay is a federally protected wildlife refuge, so you can't fill it in.
    2 - Who is going to pay for it?

    Answer those two, and the rest is easy...

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    Senior Member JHNA57's Avatar
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    Easy answer!

    Less RJ's, MORE 747-8i's

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    Senior Member cancidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHNA57 View Post
    Easy answer!

    Less RJ's, MORE 747-8i's
    that's probably the best solution to date....



    the first thing to come to mind when i heard about this was:

    "PANYNJ. when it absolutely, positively has to be ^&#*%$ up overnight."
    it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.

  9. #9
    Moderator Matt Molnar's Avatar
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    It's not the runway's fault, it's the airspace and ATC.
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
    All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
    I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9

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    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    JFK tries to do the same amount as traffic as LAX with just two runways. 3 if the split the config but another runway is never going to happen.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

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    Senior Member Zee71's Avatar
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    PHP Code:
    Two questions to answer about adding another runway at JFK:

    Where do you put itRememberJamaica Bay is a federally protected wildlife refugeso you can't fill it in.
    2 - Who is going to pay for it? 
    Well....i think they need to unprotect some of the wildlife refuge or start buying off property next to runway 31L-31R. All that stuff that is on Rockaway Blvd.. As far as paying, put a surcharge to travelers. Just like the airlines making billions of dollars off baggage fees, why not the same for an additional runway. I remember when leaving Cancun there was always some hidden surcharge. Anyway that's my dream!

    I believe in the 50's the plans showed 7 runways, which then got revised to 5 runways.
    Mark
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    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    More runways help in the same way that car traffic is improved with more roads....it doesn't. Airspace and aircraft capacity are how you ease on congestion.

    The article doesn't say what the reasons were for those delays, which could be for nearly anything, possibly none of which are the fault of ATC or airport design.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  13. #13
    Senior Member RDU-JFK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirtrafficController View Post
    That was a STOL runway back in the day. Currently it is taxiway echo.

    I don't see another runway being built at Kennedy any time soon. There is simply no real estate to expand. PANYNJ cannot expand into Jamaica Bay due to a variety of laws and contract agreements.
    I'm not familiar with taxiway details at JFK; is this the area just north of 22L and 22R? When did it cease to be a STOL runway?
    "I can't wait until tomorrow, cause I get better looking everyday"
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    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    I will go against all that's been said. JFK property is certainly not efficienly laid out... there is A LOT OF empty space at JFK that can be better used. There is SO MUCH space in fact to the north of RWY 31R/13L that it is enough for a parallel. Take down the triple hangars (I know, I would cry but life goes on,, they sit unused), tear down the DHL, Emirates and Varig/Continental Cargo buildings and the US Post Office and Customs and they can easily fit another parallel there. All those buildings can be relocated elsewhere ON PROPERTY. Plenty of dead/empty space around Taxi Compound/Verizon, Next to UPS where the Air France Cargo area is, also dead space... all the tanks west of Police Headquarters, what the heck do they do? There are huge expanses of empty lots or empty buildings all around the property... they can be repurposed. So, question then is money of course. If that is resolved, the space is already on premises.

    But, what would another runway gain you? Actually, JFK already has plenty. We are probably only thinking of the actives... if you take that into consideration, pilots are trained to land in crosswinds, and JFK does that regularly as many other single runway airports around the world... use em all! 31L is already used while the 4/22 is in use and so is 22 and 13's so that's not a problem.

    If you only concentrate on more capacity on existing infrastructure, you have to worry about ATC and regulations. Aside from physics, what is the minimum separation feasible between landings? It is all about safety/physics correct? The regulations are there to ensure the physics are not violated. Correct? Even if my dream 31RR/13LL were to be a reality, will it be far enough for parallel landings? Is capacity really an issue? I think the runways are functioning just fine so the CONDITION of them should not be the issue should it?

    This is very interesting indeed
    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
    BRING BACK THE KJFK/KLGA OBSERVATION DECKS

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    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDU-JFK View Post
    I'm not familiar with taxiway details at JFK; is this the area just north of 22L and 22R? When did it cease to be a STOL runway?
    It's the taxiway that goes northwest of the American terminal towards American Hangars/Evergreen, Southern, UPS, etc. Cargo areas...

    Also, the entire access roadway system can be ripped apart and use an satellite dropoff area and then use the train system to shuttle people to the terminals like it is done in many places. The Nassau Expwy and the JFK entrance road also take up valuable real estate.
    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
    BRING BACK THE KJFK/KLGA OBSERVATION DECKS

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