LGA - World’s Fair Marina July 5th 2011 - FBI / NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force

[Derf]

............. As far as any comments about who gave me the "right" to post here and why I think my three years of flying a gunship over Afghanistan and being shot and sent home to fly the general public gave me that right......

and it seems that it made you paronoyed.... In a warzone I would be petrified of a guy at the fence with a gun...it seems you may not have left that in Afghanistan. Most of us on this site are New Yorkers and I watched the second plane hit in NYC, I sat next to people who were bleeding from WTC as the trains never left the station, I walked home that day watching scared people waiting for what was next. We are not kids and you seem to forget that you were injured fighting for our freedoms that you are not so happy about. Lets also ban all guns because someone can take one to an airport and then we can work on putting a ban on all camera phones because we all know that nobody is going to pull out a 300mm as they would be seen spotting for another terrorist act. We should also make sure that our ID is out on our chest when we are out in public....Where would you like to draw the line?? Please, Let us know what is ok with you.

IN PUBLIC it is NOT illegal to take pictures.... We do not need to be reminded of Terrorist acts thank you and the terrorist are trying to change our way of life so we are scared and compromise our values.

Your service is appreciated but I personally think you mindset is compromised, I will not allow our country to turn into a police state where I am told that I can only pull out a camera with a permit to take pictures of certain things. We owe you a debt of gratitude but you also should think really hard about what also we are not allowed to take pictures of...Trains, Bridges, Water treatment plants....it is all degrees. Is power plants ok? What about a power distribution station, High tension wires, Powerpoles, Powerlines? If I am in plublic, it is all or nothing. I am a professional aviation photographer.... Freedom.... Taking pictures of airplanes is not worth the risk in your head.... You think we are asking for trouble with our freedom.

Here are some other potential targets that I have taken pictures of

I am a New Yorker, I am an American, and I am scared about what is happening to my country

[sammers4247]

Derf, that's the point that I was going to make. We are all New Yorkers, and live and work in a city where there are constantly alerts and threats. I understand an airline pilot is in a unique situation with regard to terror threats, but it's not fair to act like they only people who have to deal with terrorism and terrorist activity. If we start compromising our freedoms just because an otherwise innocuous hobby is "odd" or makes people uncomfortable, well, then the terrorists will have gotten exactly what they want.. they want us to be scared.

The best thing to do is to comply with law enforcement when an unknowing person sees people watching or taking photos of airliners and calls up, and inform people of the hobby. It is just a hobby unlike any other.

[wunaladreamin]

I'm so over this clown and his ludicrous banter.

[gonzalu]

Listen no one is in a hole on this. People get reported because what you do looks suspicious plain and simple. If someone knows you and sees you out there then of course no one would call you in. However taxiing by and seeing someone hanging out watching aircraft just plain looks suspicious and in spite of what you my think we usually can't see who or what is happening near the fence, just that there are people hanging around and to be safe we should call it in. So no, no one has been hurt by a photographer but we don't know you nor know what your doing so what's the harm in having someone check it out. That's all I'm saying. So yes I call it in and if everything is normal then great snap some great shots and I'll look for them online later. Honestly I'm sorry to offend. I was just trying to bring a new point of view to the discussion. The kid comment was inappropriate and I appologise to those offended. As I said this is a great site with a lot of great info. I hope to learn a little more about what you all do as I am semi new to civil aviation.

So standing at the local Costco near JFK, with my own two eyes, NO CAMERA, that's different?

What about the fact that for the last 60 years or so, there is a place in the Caribbean that enjoys a plethora of enthusiasts on a daily basis with hundreds of cameras [daily] 99% of which are NOT plane "geeks" like us? Is that too intelligent a thought for you to understand?

What if I started to think you were a bit coocoo because you love to fly planes and want to [protect] them so much that you get jealous when someone like me takes your picture in your airplane from the ground while you fly into JFK? I may consider you a terrorist too and I may think you want to be an insider so you could [do it] !! You may not like that analogy

or in the back yard of ANY OF THESE HOUSES



and whatever may or may not be happening in the thousands of them, that doesn't bother you? I mean, the folks in these homes, they have 24x7x365 to ... let me not give any ideas... I hope you get the point

Well, there are those who like to get choked and asphyxiated while having sex for a high, you think we are odd... geesh!!

Thanks Cary, I did miss a wonderful thread... live one isn't he (or she?) Is it far to venture a guess why you assumed an alias here? Why not go by your real name? I think you are the suspicious one... hahaha... yeah, we are suspicious, and have a Magnum Opus such as this website and Forum and many others like it to prove that we are suspicious.. rrrooooiiiggghhhhttt!!!!

I can't stop laughing!

[gonzalu]

wait wait wait... one more..

The United States Military INVITES ANYONE AND EVERYONE FOR FREE to come to almost all their bases, including the one where The President parks, and bring cameras and photograph the heck out of all our main lines of defense, and we are suspicious?

Hmmm, England, one of our strongest allies, maybe [THE], they have even bigger shows...

Do you know of the Paris Airshow? Any idea what takes place there?

Have you seen how many images there are on Airliners.net and JetPhotos.net?

Today, the Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff of the USA was given a tour of China's most secret military locations and you worry about us?

If anything, educate yourself, come join us and learn that taking pictures of The White House (which BTW, I think a billion or so people from ALL OVER the world have taken shots of) is just as similar as those who take pictures of a plane or anything they enjoy recording. As a matter of fact, this past Sunday was actually pretty goddamn boring and we actually had much more fun BECAUSE it is a legitimate hobby and instead of going Gang Banging, we just busted each others chops all day long... no harm no foul and if a suspicious bogey like you showed up with different ideas, you bet WE were there and no one from the FBI would have seen or caught anyone because THEY were NOT there, we were...

We are ALWAYS around, watching, photographing, observing, protecting, looking out for the likes of you ... muhahaha!

Phil, I have lost it, it is late, feel free to EDIT!!

[threeholerglory]

Well, there are those who like to get choked and asphyxiated while having sex for a high, you think we are odd... geesh!!

well...now we know that Manny likes having his hair pulled...I can sleep easier now for knowing that.

[NIKV69]

wait wait wait... one more..

The United States Military INVITES ANYONE AND EVERYONE FOR FREE to come to almost all their bases, including the one where The President parks, and bring cameras and photograph the heck out of all our main lines of defense, and we are suspicious?

After running down your background pretty well.

muhahaha!

Oh oh, Manny is losing it.

[Derf]

Guys, it is simple when you think about it... He was shot, looking out the window of his aircraft sometime he gets the heeby geebies, I can understand and relate. Kenny had bis aunt hit by a car on the side of new highway and would not return until the road was repaired, even now I am sure it is hard for him! I got shocked by 480 volts and it put me into the hospital and it took me a very long time to be able to touch live wires that were shielded. I never got over it, Kenny will never get over it completely. Time makes it easier but it will never completely go away like my nightmares of what happened. Ou lr new friend is in pain, it is much better than right after it happened but there is nothing that we can say that will help him when he see's a photographer at the fence. It is the human brain trying to protect himself from a life altering event. It is time to stop beating up on him. I would like to be the first to invite you out for a very nice, non stressful few hours out on the ramp with me. Not from behind the fence but a nice sunset out with a beautiful DC-7 and 2 or 3 close friends. It will be arriving Sunday and staying thru the week but mon or Tuesday would be best for me. If you are interested in good non confrontational conversation and spotter views will not be discussed unless you bring it up, please send be an PM or email at [email protected] . I would like to personally thank you for your service to his country and hope for the love of aviation you can join us in the celebration of flight itself.

[megatop412]

So standing at the local Costco near JFK, with my own two eyes, NO CAMERA, that's different?

What about the fact that for the last 60 years or so, there is a place in the Caribbean that enjoys a plethora of enthusiasts on a daily basis with hundreds of cameras [daily] 99% of which are NOT plane "geeks" like us? Is that too intelligent a thought for you to understand?

What if I started to think you were a bit coocoo because you love to fly planes and want to [protect] them so much that you get jealous when someone like me takes your picture in your airplane from the ground while you fly into JFK? I may consider you a terrorist too and I may think you want to be an insider so you could [do it] !! You may not like that analogy

or in the back yard of ANY OF THESE HOUSES



and whatever may or may not be happening in the thousands of them, that doesn't bother you? I mean, the folks in these homes, they have 24x7x365 to ... let me not give any ideas... I hope you get the point

Well, there are those who like to get choked and asphyxiated while having sex for a high, you think we are odd... geesh!!

Thanks Cary, I did miss a wonderful thread... live one isn't he (or she?) Is it far to venture a guess why you assumed an alias here? Why not go by your real name? I think you are the suspicious one... hahaha... yeah, we are suspicious, and have a Magnum Opus such as this website and Forum and many others like it to prove that we are suspicious.. rrrooooiiiggghhhhttt!!!!

I can't stop laughing!

Yay! I figured out that my house is in between two of the highlighted areas, so I can do whatever I want! Thanks Manny!

[Zee71]

Since Manny brought up the subject of shooting on Military Bases (airshows in particular). Right after 9-11 I had the opportunity to stay aboard the aircraft carrier George Washington for 3 days. This was the same aircraft carrier that was near the shore Long Island the next day protecting the skies of NYC. A group of us flew down to Norfolk VA to board the carrier early that November. I bunked in the same quarters as the sailors (I had the top bunk of course). I've seen and PHOTOGRAPHED just about every area of the ship (except for some areas as we were told by the Naval public relations officer). That reminds me of another event "FLEET WEEK". Lots of folks with camera's, and no one is calling this suspicious activity. Just visit NYC or Time Square, people taking PHOTOGRAPHS of everything, even buildings (how odd, why would people want to take photo's of buildings????)

Bottom line ........... the general public, is mis-informed and needs to get educated about plane spotting. I found out about NYC Aviation through my sister, who was watching the news and Al Roker was doing a special segment on NYC Aviation. After seeing the segment I immediately visited the website and became a member. I am glad to have met fantastic individuals (who are professionals, students, pilots, law enforcement, etc.) here and across the coast.

[moose135]

I found out about NYC Aviation through my sister, who was watching the news and Al Rouker was doing a special segment on NYC Aviation. After seeing the segment I immediately visited the website and became a member.

Wow, you joined us after seeing the Roker report?

[MarkLawrence]

your coworkers must make a lot of reports at BWI, FLL, AUS, SXM

Cary - maybe those that are not too busy waving at all the spotters with their cameras - certainly at FLL of late - they really are all a friendly bunch flying in and out of here at the moment!! :)

Both side have been presented in this case - and - ultimately, we are not going to stop taking pictures, and we are never going to stop people calling in about us being out there taking our pictures because they think we are suspicious. Same as we are never going to convince people who don't understand that our hobby/pastime is fun to us! People who think we are weird and suspicious are going to call LE and we'll keep getting those friendly visits :) I can certainly confirm that in South Florida, LE definitely recognizes the benefit of using being in the area - they will stop and chat to us when they can!

Although I've never been referred to as a kid of late - I know I've been kid-like at times - ask Nick V or anyone I've spotted with in NY about seeing something I need!! :lol:

[NIKV69]

Wow, you joined us after seeing the Roker report?

LOL I remember that fiasco. I wish someone would have thrown him in the water.

[USAF Pilot 07]

As far as any comments about who gave me the "right" to post here and why I think my three years of flying a gunship over Afghanistan and being shot and sent home to fly the general public gave me that right.

Since you brought it up, care to elaborate? Not that I don't believe you, but as someone who's spent a decent amount of time flying over the skies of Afghanistan, I'm curious...

[B6Busdriver]

Where in the world do I start... Let me first say this guy is a complete as*hole. I've been reading the forum for a long time now, I follow you on twitter and I love this site. It's a great place for news and insight into all things aviation. I can't believe that someone from my company would come on here and say these things to all of you. As one of the FLL based guys that was mentioned previously here as waving and smiling to the camera as of late, I'm sorry to see one of our own be so thoughtless. Let me acknoledge that he is correct our airline as well as all others do tell there crews in our yearly safety briefs to report all individuals and groups taking photos on and around airport property. This however is left to the descretion of the pilots and in most cases we all know what you all do and only on rare occations have to inform anyone. I hope that the invotation to come out with some of you can be extended my way too because I've seen some amazing photos out there and I'd like to meet some of the people behind the lens. I never post on things like this but I created this account just to rebutt what this guy was saying, trust me you all have friends in the flightdeck. In fact if any of you FLL guys are going to be out this beautiful morning I'll be flying flight 310 to IAD. Nothing special with this airplane though, I think the name is True Blue and the tail is the mosaic skeem. Anyway spot on my friends!