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Thread: Air France collision taxing at JFK

  1. #31
    Member m.marra's Avatar
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    Wouldn't the CRJ have to report stopped in the movement area? The audioshows the A380 was instructed to hold-short of taxiway "E" and giveway to opposite direction traffic at "KD", but nothing was mentionedabout taxiway "M". Thankfully nobody was injured. It does seem thepassengers got quite a jolt from this.

  2. #32
    Member m.marra's Avatar
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    From what I understand, the CRJ was waiting on a gate to open up after arriving.

  3. #33
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    I can't believe there was no neck injuries or something that looks like one hell of a jolt.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  4. #34
    Senior Member yankees368's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.marra View Post
    From what I understand, the CRJ was waiting on a gate to open up after arriving.
    Correct. I've been in a CRJ-900 in that same exact position. They wait for their specific gate (not really a gate, but that stupid parking spot on the terminal extension for the regional jets). Each slot is market with the destination of the plane, and even though there are several other slots open and waiting, the incoming flight must wait for the designated slot to open up. So, an incoming flight that is going back out to Buffalo must wait for the Buffalo spot, and can't park in another spot. Very annoying since they are not real gates, just parking spots.

  5. #35
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    The CRJ may have been holding until he could get into his gate, or until a marshaller could directed him in. If you watch the start of the video, a pickup truck drives past the front of the CRJ, he may have stopped to allow the vehicle to clear - or else the headline might have been "CRJ hits truck at JFK"

  6. #36
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    A former Newsday co-worker, now at the Long Island Press, posted a link to their story about the collision, which used a photo of the Boeing 747-8 freighter. I complained to him, so he asked if I had a photo they could use...
    http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/...t-jfk-airport/

  7. #37
    Senior Member yankees368's Avatar
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    The Newsday article was just updated (I hate to link to Newsday, but I'll do it anyway) and says "The pilot of the regional jet was "waiting to go into the gate area" when the collision happened, Peters said. The impact spun the regional jet nearly 90 degrees. There were no reported injuries, Peters said.

    A review of the video indicates that the Comair jet apparently "was not far enough along on the taxiway" before the collision, Peters said.

    "There could be a good reason for it," Peters said.

    Anthony Black, spokesman for Delta Air Lines, said that the Comair jet, which carried 62 passengers and four crew members, had just turned a corner of the taxiway when the collision occurred.

    "I don't know if it was waiting for a wing walker to get into place," Black said. "The entire collection of events will be part of the NTSB investigation."

    So it is possible that the Comair flight was not far enough into the gate area.

  8. #38
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose135 View Post
    Hard to say, but if you are driving and run into a parked car, what will your insurance company think?
    Hmmm, I think this is slightly different. We are dealing with very large machines, with parts that can't be seen from the cockpit etc. If pilots were to be held responsible just like a car driver is, they would request mirrors and cameras in certain places.

    That being said, I say that cameras on the wing tips facing fore and aft would be tremendously beneficial... the pilots could have them show on the cockpit and see if the wing will clear or not from the perspective of the wingtip.
    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
    BRING BACK THE KJFK/KLGA OBSERVATION DECKS

  9. #39
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    We are dealing with very large machines, with parts that can't be seen from the cockpit etc. If pilots were to be held responsible just like a car driver is, they would request mirrors and cameras in certain places.
    If you aren't sure you have clearance, you stop and request help, whether that is a marshaller, or a vehicle, or something else to ensure you are clear to proceed.

  10. #40
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    True, but, in this case, I think they had reasonable assurance that it would clear, how would they know or why would they think otherwise? And while on the subject, it is usually pretty dark out there by the taxiways. I have seen it and past the perimeter it is pitch black...

    and as I have said earlier, I have witnessed AFR pilots use extreme caution and done just as you said, even in full daylight... so I would think they should not be blamed for carelessness.
    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
    BRING BACK THE KJFK/KLGA OBSERVATION DECKS

  11. #41
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose135 View Post
    If you aren't sure you have clearance, you stop and request help, whether that is a marshaller, or a vehicle, or something else to ensure you are clear to proceed.
    He is taxing on a taxiway where he has clearance why wouldn't he think he had clearance? If every big aircraft that used that taxiway had to worry about other vehicles and aircraft not observing the hold short line JFK traffic would grind to a halt.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

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  13. #43
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly2e View Post

    it's been linked to this thread already ;-)
    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
    BRING BACK THE KJFK/KLGA OBSERVATION DECKS

  14. #44
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    I wonder if anyone on-board has video of the tail cam from the A380 (if it was on at the time of the incident)
    Manny Gonzalez
    Thrust Images | General Photography | R.I.P. Matt Molnar 1979-2013
    BRING BACK THE KJFK/KLGA OBSERVATION DECKS

  15. #45
    Delta Connection planes pulling into that terminal 2 pad have a spot 99.99% of the time. If their spot is taken or the entrance onto the apron is blocked, they wait on the active taxiway until it is clear.

    The bigger CRJs use the outer pads of gate 23 and 25 (Echo, Foxtrot, Papa, Quebec, and Romeo).

    The reason it was holding there is because the pilots were waiting for a vehicle to clear the pad or for the marshaller and wing walkers to set up and guide the plane in.

    I'm glad I didn't have to work that night because the Delta Connection operation must have been hectic.

    Question... is KD between terminal 2 and 3 or is it the taxiway that leads into the Delta Connection apron?
    Mat Czwakiel

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