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Thread: Should the Cradle fall?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    No aviation museum rotated its exhibits.... It is not like other museums that way.

    I never said selling a museum piece was better, I do not knock the Concorde. I say that 1 mil for a Model is not worth it when you can have a couple of real aircraft for the price of displaying a model.... If they realized that they are never going to display it as it cost too much for the original idea, do you think they should let it rot in the hangar? It is not a last ditch attempt to make cash, it is realizing that you will never use it and it is taking up space....GARAGE SALE! You love the Concorde more than anybody I know and that does say allot. Let me put it this way. If they could mount a full sized copy of the F-14 tomcat or get two actual airframes for the same price from desert in Arizona for display, what would be the better idea. With the word Concorde in there you are blinded by your love. It is not a real airplane. This is not an airframe and can not fly and should not be considered a museum piece. I know you will disagree. I am not saying that you do not have a right to your opinion. I think your wrong. You think I am wrong. Nothing will change that. But I will still tip a beer with you any day....even tho your out of your mind
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  2. #17
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Fred, its not just with Concorde. Rotating exhibits.

    While you think I am blinded by Concorde, its not so. in fact, I would love to see the other stuff they have there.


    In fact, let's take my rotating exhibit a step further....

    remember that aviation photo exhibit some of us were in and that you won? Our pics were at ISP for a while and were then supposed to go to Cradle. Where the hell are those photos? Why hasn't that exhibit been put up, promoted, etc? NO room, you say? What about that vast wasteland of a lobby, right under that Blue Angels jet, in the main entrance area? (Really, where are our photos, anyway?)

    Just extrapolate that for a second...if they showcased those photos as an exhibit for a certain time frame, I know I would promote it on facebook to friends and fam, as would you, and on and on. That is free marketing to Cradle. But what imbeciles run this place?

    We're not talking rocket science, Fred. You claim $1mill to mount a fake airframe and I guarantee in this day and age, with no jobs, you can get it done for less than 100K with a few illegals and an architect. Prove me otherwise. There is no sense arguing otherwise, the Mario is right on this one.

    Same with the photo exhibit that never came to be.

    Two things that could have happened, giving the museum more to showcase, the former example might cost a few bucks and the latter is free. Both add to more for the museum to show. And yet, neither comes to fruition. And why is that?
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  3. #18
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirrodie View Post
    remember that aviation photo exhibit some of us were in and that you won? Our pics were at ISP for a while and were then supposed to go to Cradle. Where the hell are those photos? Why hasn't that exhibit been put up, promoted, etc? NO room, you say? What about that vast wasteland of a lobby, right under that Blue Angels jet, in the main entrance area? (Really, where are our photos, anyway?)
    They are safe, waiting to be put on display at the Cradle. It's not a question of space, but of scheduling and obtaining appropriate (and sufficient) stands to set up the display.

    Quote Originally Posted by mirrodie View Post
    ...I guarantee in this day and age, with no jobs, you can get it done for less than 100K with a few illegals and an architect. Prove me otherwise. There is no sense arguing otherwise, the Mario is right on this one....
    Really, Mario? Illegals? Think about it for a minute, Mario. You expect the Nassau County government (and really, any government agency) to hire illegal immigrants to build the display? Can you pass along whatever it is you are on, because it must be some good stuff...
    Last edited by moose135; 2011-04-11 at 10:59 PM.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    Ummm Mario? What Else do they have? I have been in the hangar and there is nothing else that can go inside.... That is why the pieces are in the Hangar. It is to be restored.

    There is an F-105 and that is in poor condition that is why it is in the hangar. It will get TLC that is needed and when done it will be displayed. Nothing else is put together! As per what you say about no jobs and taking 100K, Lots of people wish you were right, but your not. It gets grants by the goverment and needs to be approved by the state. That changes your 100K a bit. Do you really think that for 100k they would NOT put it up? It would flag people down and would help people to turn in to take pictures and visit the Museum. 1 MIL will not show the return needed to say, "Thats a good idea!" It has to be anchored so that if you get a 100+MPH hurricane it does not go airbore and kill anyone.

    What can you move from Museum to museum? The Cradle has DONATED lots of things to the AAM that they could not use... Including an Nike Missile but that is just the tip of the iceberg. I have lots of info about what they have done and all three Museums help each other out.

    If you would like I can see about getting your photos back. It was going not just to the Cradle but they were going to try to have it go around different public buildings and promote Long Island Aviation. I donated my photos to Gary Lewi for all that he has done for people who love aviation. Like allowing photographers on the ramp when the AAM is closed to take pictures of very public aircraft without asking for a dime, Letting us do the History Under the Stars, Trying to help promote the love of aviation any way he can. If the roaming photos failed, so be it...it was not for lack of him trying. He is a great man and I will always smile when I see him. I could never say anything bad about him and all he try's to do for everyone.
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  5. #20
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Moose, I use illegals in jest. IF one really wanted to put heads together though, between students of architecture and companies vying for PR and marketing, it could be a win win, but you hit the nail on the head, its Nassau and thus, politics at the heart of the matter.

    Fred, don't misunderstand me. I'm not asking for my photos back nor am I making any kind of statement against Gary. Its out of his hands I am sure. But those photos are another example of a rotating exhibit.

    What I am saying is there are opportunities abound that should be tapped into and the photos were just another example.

    Here's another idea, just an example, Go to the local restaurants and have them validate something for reduced admission at Cradle if they take their food receipt to Cradle, within, say, 15 days.

    lots of cheap, easy ways to promote. But once you get people in, you got to mix it up. Otherwise that museum is pretty stagnant, Concorde aside. Perhaps having been there thrice in 6 years is too much but I could give the museum tour myself.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    No aviation museum rotated its exhibits.... It is not like other museums that way.
    Fred, that's not entirely true. Prior to Udvar Hazy, the NASM regularly rotated aircraft to the museum on the mall from the Garber storage facility. Back in the late 80's when I was in college, I averaged a trip a year to NASM. The end of the building, opposite the end with the LEM, was the site for the rotation. One year they had the Fed Ex Falcon 20 on display, a year later they had a nice exhibit of the F6F Hellcat, complete with mock up carrier deck section. The following year, their F-86 displayed in a revetment layout complete with PSP. So the precedent exists for air museums to do this. Of course at the time if you really wanted to see these aircraft when not on display, you'd have to make a reservation to tour the Garber storage facility, but you'd see them in less than optimal display conditions.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    I stand corrected
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  8. #23
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    I'm still not quite seeing what the problem is with the Cradle, other than that they don't have the mini-Concorde on display. It's an outstanding museum.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  9. #24
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    lots of cheap, easy ways to promote. But once you get people in, you got to mix it up. Otherwise that museum is pretty stagnant, Concorde aside. Perhaps having been there thrice in 6 years is too much but I could give the museum tour myself.
    Epic use of the word "thrice"!

    I don't think rotating exhibits would do anything. That place has the luxury of having that dome theatre and I think should go with that. Get a few more interesting speakers, anything to get people to come.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  10. #25
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    they do have great speakers there...Mario and I had been then to see Captain Al Haynes a few years ago, the speak with the ISS and let kids ask them questions. There are lots of things they do thru out the year. There is lots more but I do not follow all the speakers as I am poor white trash and can not afford to see everything I want to.
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  11. #26
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    So I decided to put my money where my mouth is (what an odd expression...) and visited the Cradle this afternoon. Not only that, but rather than pay the $14 admission, I put up $25 for a one-year membership, which gives you unlimited visits, plus discounts for the movie, gift shop, and other events. Since they were celebrating the 100th Anniversary of Naval Aviation, they had a number of extra displays set up - in the main lobby, a WWII Navy Jeep, plus several display cases of models and painting depicting the history of Naval Aviation.





    This is new since I was there last - the cockpit of a 727...


    As part of the weekend's events, they had several aircraft cockpits open for viewing - this is the front seat of the F-14 forward fuselage on display. I also got a look at the Avenger cockpit, but I'm not at all happy with the photos I got.



    There were even some AAM reenactors on hand to mark the history of Naval Aviation.



    I ended up not taking as many photos as I expected I would. Just after getting to the museum, I bumped into a friend, Sol, their head of security, and an AAM member as well. We spent almost two hours walking through the museum, sharing stories about the place and the aircraft.


    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    and as you said, the actual lunar lander
    That one is sort of like the Enterprise. It was the first LM built, but was retained by Grumman for engineering, test, and training purposes. Following Moon missions, when the astronauts recommended changes to the LM, they were tried out on this unit and tested by the upcoming mission crew before being changed on the LM that was going to be flown.

    This LM, in the simulated Moon display, is the actual LM that would have flown with Apollo 18.


    And I do need to get back there soon - in the theater, they are playing "Tornado Alley" which is the IMAX movie they were filming during the past couple of season's of Discovery Channel's "Storm Chasers" show. I watched that regularly, and it will be interesting to see the movie that resulted from it. Sean Casey and others from the show/movie were speaking at the Cradle this past week, but unfortunately I wasn't able to get down there to see them.
    Last edited by moose135; 2011-04-17 at 10:29 PM.

  12. #27
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Cool. Well my family is headed in tomorrow with another family. It'll be Highheels 2nd visit since fall of 2006.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  13. #28
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    Great review Moose.... $25 bucks? I am going to have to pay. Sounds like a fun winters day to play with my 6.5mm lens. I need to call Bill to get into the F-14 #3 and A-6F cockpits to document them. It will be a full day of shooting, but this little project keeps going on the back burner.
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  14. #29
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Keep in mind the Intrepid is $22 plus tax and you don't even get access to the whole museum (Concorde), and there are no space artifacts. You run throught he entire Intrepid in about 25 minutes.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69 View Post
    Epic use of the word "thrice"!

    I don't think rotating exhibits would do anything. That place has the luxury of having that dome theatre and I think should go with that. Get a few more interesting speakers, anything to get people to come.
    Rotating exhibits work very well with all museums and keep people coming to see different exhibits, the cradle has lacked that. Their other big issue is location, its a poor location that is strictly a destination location vs. a multi event cultural or retail environment. If the lighthouse project ever goes through that will do a wealth of good for the museum.

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