I bow to Randall Johnson

[threeholerglory]

I just love reading this thread and seeing passion about aviation photography. Kickass.

Nice one Phil lol

[NIKV69]

Nick, its all about context here. Look back at what I said:

Nice backpedal but the context was clear. You basically said these guys are real photographers and insinuated that people that upload to anet are not.

The conversation revolved around saying Randall was the best photog a.net has to offer. I disagree, I think a.net has better to offer. Nothing wrong with that.

It started out that way but degenerated into a rant against a site you feel only has photos from people that don't push themselves which is total bravo sierra. Was Phil over the top with saying Randal was the best out there? Like anything else it's relative. I feel he is most certainly one of the top guys out there and you used it as a way to further an agenda about angles and composition and I gave you the benefit of the doubt but as I look at the work of the names you dropped I don't see it. Randall pushes himself just as much if not more than the photogs you mentioned. In fact I don't see really anything much different than any of the outside the box stuff on anet already. Great example is contrail shots. I didn't see one from any of those photogs yet Randall has mastered them and totally kills everyone one he uploads and those are by far not only "outside the box" but pretty damn tough to pull off.

Simply as I have stated on fb this was just a rant, and nothing much more. Hell I see more creative "outside the box" stuff from Florian's work than I do these guys. If you want to stop uploading to anet fine, but we didn't need the drama or the insults of people who feel anet pushes them just as much as any other place you can upload.

Now again if you would like to provide examples that we can discuss I feel that would be a lot more productive than to just throw names and accusations, so feel free.

[jerslice]

Nick, its all about context here. Look back at what I said:

Nice backpedal but the context was clear. You basically said these guys are real photographers and insinuated that people that upload to anet are not.

Context was clear that time, and it's clear this time; sorry you can't see that.
I'm done with you on this Nick. Have fun.

[threeholerglory]

Context was clear that time, and it's clear this time; sorry you can't see that.
I'm done with you on this Nick. Have fun.

I don't mean to take sides here but 7 beers deep since this thread has heated up tonight alone and I can see how Jeremy meant that comment, which is to say the "whole photographer"...not intended as an insult by any means.

PS - I'm a lightweight.

[NIKV69]

Context was clear that time, and it's clear this time; sorry you can't see that.
I'm done with you on this Nick. Have fun.

Yes you clearly called us fake photographers. Oh BTW you are offbase about his equipment as well. He shoots with a D300 and a F4 300 lens and I can assure you they don't cost 15 grand. In fact they are consumer grade equipment which is more of a testament to his skills.

[sporky]

I just love reading this thread and seeing passion about aviation photography. Kickass.

Agreed. I admit that my creative side is a bit behind a LOT of others, though looking at other photgraphers work is helping me to think more about different shots that can be made. Thanks to all aviation photographers out there for their passion about shooting and helping developing shooters improve.

-Tad

[Dahemody]

The distinction being made here is the difference between a picture (an image) and a photograph (art).

What's the first rule of photography? Rule of thirds: don't center your subject. How many Anet shots does that describe?

The vast majority of images in Anet's database are pictures due to the exhaustive screening requirements. Centering requirements alone suck a lot of creativity out of submissions. The shots I submit are the most boring artistically, and the easiest to capture: center, focus, shoot. It takes far more skill and planning to create a photograph, especially since we are all so familiar with the subject. Just because an image is sharp, leveled and contrasted correctly doesn't make it a photograph. And that's the point Jeremy is trying to make - he's is looking for a forum to share something he's created, not a image that someone else told him how to make.

[seahawks7757]

I don't mean to take sides here but 7 beers deep since this thread has heated up tonight alone and I can see how Jeremy meant that comment, which is to say the "whole photographer"...not intended as an insult by any means.

PS - I'm a lightweight.

You summed it up the way that I read it. I mean honestly it is impossible to say that anyone is the best on the site. Every photographer has there own specialties, I agree that it sucks that A.Net really wont open there doors with more artistic/creative shots and instead take the same cookie cutter shots.

So I agree with what Jeremy is saying in he is not the Greatest of All Time as you made it sound but rather just a good photographer.

[Dahemody]

I think everybody needs to re-read this passage again, slowly:

I also have the benefit of knowing where else a few of these guys post so one can really get a feel for the real photographer, and not just what a.net has deemed acceptable...

This statement makes no judgment on the abilities of anybody on Anet in any way. It is merely stating that you can't judge somebody's photography skills strictly on Anet material. The screening process puts limits on what photographers can do, and if you want to"get a feel for the real photographer" you need to go outside Anet.

It doesn't say real photographers don't post on Anet. It doesn't insinuate Randall is not a real photographer. Just that if you judge strictly on Anet material, it is an incomplete picture.

[NIKV69]

What's the first rule of photography? Rule of thirds: don't center your subject. How many Anet shots does that describe?

One of the major downfalls of these constant rants is that Jeremy tries to treat anet as a living, breathing thing. He speaks as if anet is controlling all of aviation photography and some here especially this comment thinks it's the center of the photography universe. I think rational thinking people realize this is not the case. Anet was born from slide shooters. Guys who took 50mm, perfectly lit side on shots that documented the entire scheme of the aircraft and sold slides. Once anet exploded (during the digital craze) things changed. Now don't forget anet was always a site that had the highest standards and as of a few years ago they lowered these standards for the creative shots.

Now I am still calling major BS on Jeremy's claim that anet encourages cookie cutting photography. He does this because he thinks anet is a living thing capable of controlling photogs actions. Is it? Of course not. Just because a majority of uploads don't fit his "outside the box" vision of what av-photo should be doesn't make it so. In fact you take the time to search the DB you will find plenty of shot that fit his criteria. Do many get rejected? Of course, does it cause many to stop trying? Probably but that is life. It's out of anet's control and if you prefer flicker fine go ahead, knock yourself out. Reading his rant about anet not encouraging something, and Randall having 15k of gear obviously outed himself as someone with an axe to grind. It's a story we have seen many times by photogs that have to pull their pics or stop uploading that have to go out with the bomb throwing and name dropping. I don't know Jeremy but he sure came off as a drama llama here.

Again, I took the time to view the work from all his "real photographers" and I don't see it. Not taking anything away from them but as I look at Flo's work I see a heck of a lot more outside the box shots and he has little problem getting anet to take them. Again Jeremy if you have shots that you feel are outside of the "cookie cutting" usual shots on anet that you tried to upload please I would love to see them but to just continue to throw out bombs is just counter productive.

[Dahemody]

I'm only seeing one person ranting in this thread, and it isn't Jeremy.

You clearly didn't bother to re-read Jeremy's original statement. By the phrase 'real photographer' he was referring to the photographer's complete portfolio. He only made the point that he has seen photography off Anet that he prefers to a specific photographer's work limited to Anet's database.

If you think disagreeing with the screening practices of Anet is 'bomb throwing' then there's absolutely no point in continuing this conversation.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the horse realize that a mis-read phrase wasn't actually offensive if the horse wants to stay pissed off.

[gonzalu]

What's sad is that ALL of you still take better pictures than I do LOL. Seriously, I can only hope to match the quality of the images I see from all the people here and then those of Randall and Sam Chui and others I respect and look up to on A.net.

Access is definitely great to have but not really necessary when you can make a picture from outside the fence :-0 I know it can be done as I know a lot of A.net is from outside the fence.

Regardless, I need to tap into all your skills...

You wanna see poor images, just look at my crap ha!!



Cheers!

[NIKV69]

You clearly didn't bother to re-read Jeremy's original statement.

I did, more than once.

If you think disagreeing with the screening practices of Anet is 'bomb throwing' then there's absolutely no point in continuing this conversation.

Of course it isn't because your trying to make the screening process something it isn't. By trying to take the fact that they are strict into that they don't want creative images. When you try to treat anet as the end all or the way photographers are measured it is pointless.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the horse realize that a mis-read phrase wasn't actually offensive if the horse wants to stay pissed off

I am not pissed off but I am not going to drink the kool aide either. Jeremy's words were clear and all the backpedaling won't change the fact that it was simply a rant against a site that doesn't accept his efforts at craetive images and instead of posting them for discussion he would rather take his marbles and go home by saying he is only going to post enough to get to a hundred and leave then take a parting shot at someone.

[mirrodie]

I agree that it sucks that A.Net really wont open there doors with more artistic/creative shots

I disagree. I think Anet, realizing that it has competition, then made itself more competitive by allowing a new creative category.

What I do feel was a bit odd was that once the new creative category of shots were allowed, it was a screener's shot of a shadow of a plane on a field of corn that was accepted as the first shot.

I am trying to look at this discussion from many angles. Nick, may I ask a this: in your second post here, you said somthing to the effect that he does it all despite having no access. In the same way you are cocksure that Jeremy was ranting against Anet, is it possible you are taking an equally clear shot at those with access?

Truthfully, I don't think you are. But you could extrapolate that sense in the same way I suppose.







Let's face it. Shots at SXM are all very similar after a while. I tried to upload one as creative and was nearly banned.

And so, I posted it elsewhere.

To put this matter to rest, although I have not uploaded in a while, I have to say that I am one of the top photographers out there. And thus, we have come to the end of this discussion....pun intended.



http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/2/3...1144915053.jpg

[NIKV69]

Omg the moon! LOLOL classic.