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Thread: More TSA Stupidity

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    Senior Member cancidas's Avatar
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    More TSA Stupidity

    EMSHighway, please don't take this one too personally:[url]http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/[/ur]
    As the Chalk Leader for my flight home from Afghanistan, I witnessed the following:When we were on our way back from Afghanistan, we flew out of Baghram Air Field. We went through customs at BAF, full body scanners (no groping), had all of our bags searched, the whole nine yards.Our first stop was Shannon, Ireland to refuel. After that, we had to stop at Indianapolis, Indiana to drop off about 100 folks from the Indiana National Guard. Thatís where the stupid started.First, everyone was forced to get off the planeĖeven though the plane wasnít refueling again. All 330 people got off that plane, rather than let the 100 people from the ING get off. We were filed from the plane to a holding area. No vending machines, no means of escape. Only a male/female latrine.Itís probably important to mention that we were ALL carrying weapons. Everyone was carrying an M4 Carbine (rifle) and some, like me, were also carrying an M9 pistol. Oh, and our gunners had M-240B machine guns. Of course, the weapons werenít loaded. And we had been cleared of all ammo well before we even got to customs at Baghram, then AGAIN at customs.The TSA personnel at the airport seriously considered making us unload all of the baggage from the SECURE cargo hold to have it reinspected. Keep in mind, this cargo had been unpacked, inspected piece by piece by U.S. Customs officials, resealed and had bomb-sniffing dogs give it a one-hour run through. After two hours of sitting in this holding area, the TSA decided not to reinspect our CargoĖjust to inspect us again: Soldiers on the way home from war, who had already been inspected, reinspected and kept in a SECURE holding area for 2 hours. Ok, whatever. So we lined up to go through security AGAIN.This is probably another good time to remind you all that all of us were carrying actual assault rifles, and some of us were also carrying pistols.So weíre in line, going through one at a time. One of our Soldiers had his Gerber multi-tool. TSA confiscated it. Kind of ridiculous, but it gets better. A few minutes later, a guy empties his pockets and has a pair of nail clippers. Nail clippers. TSA informs the Soldier that theyíre going to confiscate his nail clippers. The conversation went something like this:TSA Guy: You canít take those on the plane.Soldier: What? Iíve had them since we left country.TSA Guy: Youíre not suppose to have them.Soldier: Why?TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a weapon. And Iím allowed to take it on.TSA Guy: Yeah but you canít use it to take over the plane. You donít have bullets.Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?TSA Guy: [awkward silence]Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get the f**k out of here. Iíll buy you a new set.Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy, makes it through security]This might be a good time to remind everyone that approximately 233 people re-boarded that plane with assault rifles, pistols, and machine gunsĖbut nothing that could have been used as a weapon.
    amazing... simply amazing...
    it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.

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    All it takes is a little story like this to remind me that maybe I don't work for the dumbest gov't agency after all

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    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    incoming......
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    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirrodie View Post
    incoming......
    LMAO!!!!

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    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    EMS may think we are picking on the TSA but holy smokes you cannot turn on the TV, put on the radio, pick up a newspaper or log on to the web without seeing some type of story
    concerning the scanners/pat down!!
    As they say it has gone VIRAL!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member cancidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    EMS may think we are picking on the TSA but holy smokes you cannot turn on the TV, put on the radio, pick up a newspaper or log on to the web without seeing some type of story
    concerning the scanners/pat down!!
    As they say it has gone VIRAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
    EMS is a friend, which is why i don't want him taking it personally. and this isn't about the pat down, it's about the fact that the agents deplaned a full flight instead of just letting 100 people off, then didn't let soldiers carrying weapons take a nail clipper onboard. i know rules are rules, but this one is just rather dumb from the beginning.
    it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.

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    Senior Member MarkLawrence's Avatar
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    And they keep coming and coming.....

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    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cancidas View Post
    EMSHighway, please don't take this one too personally:[url]http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/[/ur]amazing... simply amazing...
    To my recollection this happen many years ago not recently. There was something more about this then what was reported but I'm sorry I don't recall what it was nor can I find it right now.

    I can tell you that when Soldiers come through LGA they are treated exactly like they should be, American Heroes. We have had the New York National Guard (and others) come through and at the checkpoint a lane will be opened just for them. We post all the service flags on the wall. I had a new TSA officer at the walk-through Metal Detector who was a little unsure what to do about the soldiers boots. I explained to him their boots have steel shanks and a dog tag attached to their laces. They keep their boots on and shook each hand and thanked them as they came through. The weapons were put directly in the cargo hold.

    Each year, American Airlines hosts the Medal of Honor flight to DC. Flags and Honor Guards are set up to salute these heroes.

    Sgt. Guinta, the most recent Medal of Honor recipient arrived yesterday and he was met by honor guards from the USSS, FBI, PAPD, DHS ands many more.

    Family of the military are allowed to go to the gate to see their loved one off. Many don't know this but if I see a soldier with his family I make sure it happens.

    We at LGA have many veterans working TSA and other areas and we make sure the military is honored properly. We assist the patriot guard in their efforts to do the same.

    I would like to say this happen everywhere but all I can say in my piece of this world it does.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    EMS may think we are picking on the TSA but holy smokes you cannot turn on the TV, put on the radio, pick up a newspaper or log on to the web without seeing some type of story
    concerning the scanners/pat down!!
    As they say it has gone VIRAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It's the flavor of the week. There isn't much else going on in the news so it makes good fodder.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLawrence View Post
    And they keep coming and coming.....

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/ns/travel-news/
    Read this also. Don't have first hand knowledge of the whole case but what I could gather she Opted Out of the Whole Body Imager so a standard pat down needs to be done (SOP, not the officers choice). Since their was an anomaly it has to be cleared and a resolution pat down performed (the more invasive method). It is unfortunate but with the Intel we have the latest method has proved to be explosives in underwear (two Russian women in their bra's which they did detonate and the infamous Christmas Day underwear bomber).

    At the present time the Back-Scatter and Millimeter Wave machines are the best that is out their. I personally favor newer technology that uses thermal imaging. There are no privacy or radiation issues. It was presented to TSA but there are issues with it and their is only one company presenting it. I would hope with the recent publicity other companies will introduce alternatives.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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    Senior Member cancidas's Avatar
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    EMS one thing i don't understand is when and where was it decided to change the SOP? seems the jump from metal detectors to full body pat downs is an extreme one. now, i understand that the pat down is only mandatory if one were to opt out of the scanner, but why can't one just go through the metal detector as they are in more checkpoints that don't have a scanner just yet? are metal detector-screen pax also sbjected to the patdown? just seems to me like one is not equal to the other.
    it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.

  12. #12
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    There was actually two changes that happen basically at the same time which is why there may be some confusion. The first change was to the patdown procedure which changed October 29th. The patdown changed from using hand held metal detectors, which due to the current threat are obsolete, to a more hands on patdown called a standard patdown. The White House mandated AIT (Advanced Imaging Technology) deployment by the end of the year. The first 150 went out, now an additional 350 need to be deployed. Next year it will be 1000. There is a rush to get the machines in before the Holidays so our people can be trained up.

    Anyone who alarms a Walkthrough Metal Detector (WTMD), even after multiple tries to divest everything, is subject to the SPD. Also there is a random factor that you can be subject to. There is a more enhanced patdown that a Lead or Supervisor would have to do if alarms couldn't be cleared but the percentage is small).

    On lanes where there is an AIT, it is the primary form of screening but as not to have a line waiting for the AIT (which does take longer than the WTMD), the WTMD is used as a means to keep the lines moving.

    Right now due to the size of the AIT it is limited to only checkpoints that had the space (lucky American at LGA). TSA HQ does have plans to deploy them at every lane and do away with the WTMDs(let's just keep it at that for now... )
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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    Senior Member cancidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emshighway View Post
    There was actually two changes that happen basically at the same time which is why there may be some confusion. The first change was to the patdown procedure which changed October 29th. The patdown changed from using hand held metal detectors, which due to the current threat are obsolete, to a more hands on patdown called a standard patdown. The White House mandated AIT (Advanced Imaging Technology) deployment by the end of the year. The first 150 went out, now an additional 350 need to be deployed. Next year it will be 1000. There is a rush to get the machines in before the Holidays so our people can be trained up.

    Anyone who alarms a Walkthrough Metal Detector (WTMD), even after multiple tries to divest everything, is subject to the SPD. Also there is a random factor that you can be subject to. There is a more enhanced patdown that a Lead or Supervisor would have to do if alarms couldn't be cleared but the percentage is small).

    On lanes where there is an AIT, it is the primary form of screening but as not to have a line waiting for the AIT (which does take longer than the WTMD), the WTMD is used as a means to keep the lines moving.

    Right now due to the size of the AIT it is limited to only checkpoints that had the space (lucky American at LGA). TSA HQ does have plans to deploy them at every lane and do away with the WTMDs(let's just keep it at that for now... )

    that explains that, something that i wasn't aware of before. thanks.
    it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.

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    I didn't think that the TSA had any authority over military ops coming from overseas.
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    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    As far as I am concerned, if someone just finished getting shot at, after sleeping for 5 minutes every 24 hours with one eye open and the anxiety of being killed while going to the can, that someone can pretty much go as they please IN THE COUNTRY for which they did it for in the first place.

    Let's see, these folks just finished putting up with the above and MUCH MORE and they are a security risk to our country? Airlines? Bridges? LOL. So, I just finished taking a bullet for my country. Let me bring down that airliner I have always wanted to. This may be a good time.

    COUNTERPOINT: The TSA agents must get GOLD MEDALS for doing their job no matter what. They are NOT to use their gut feelings, they have been likely trained and drilled to NO LET ANYONE get through... As far as they are concerned, EVERYONE is a possible mark. If Soldiers get through without any checks, the next terrorist will simply get dressed up in camo and walk right through with an M-16 and whatever means he needs to disarm marshal(s) and enter the cockpit and take over... I am not saying I am for it, but you MUST understand the situation may not be as simple as the one sided view we have. We have NEVER heard from a TSA agent on the forum have we?

    I would get fired immediately because if I see a Soldier or Fireman after doing their jobs, I usually extend higher than normal courtesy for obvious reasons. But then again, that may be why I would be a horrible TSA agent.
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