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Thread: More TSA Stupidity

  1. #16
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    We have NEVER heard from a TSA agent on the forum have we? .
    Sorry, I'm probably the best you will get, middle management.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    OK... apologies, did not know you were "involved" But seriously, we could go back and forth with PROPER vs. BLINDLY doing a job. I bet 90% of the time, it is by the book and once in a while, Grandma gets a free pass... I have gotten trhough with a nail clipper on an outbound flight and got it taken away on the return leg.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cancidas View Post
    EMS is a friend, which is why i don't want him taking it personally. and this isn't about the pat down, it's about the fact that the agents deplaned a full flight instead of just letting 100 people off, then didn't let soldiers carrying weapons take a nail clipper onboard. i know rules are rules, but this one is just rather dumb from the beginning.
    No problem Matt, like I said this was a while ago and there was another reason they were deplaned. As with any job you have people that go by the letter of the law (SOP) and others who take the SOP and use common sense.

    It seems that any issues that happen in the last nine years is being brought back and being portrayed as it just happen. This incident and the video of the three year old are prime examples.
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  4. #19
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    OK... apologies, did not know you were "involved" But seriously, we could go back and forth with PROPER vs. BLINDLY doing a job. I bet 90% of the time, it is by the book and once in a while, Grandma gets a free pass... I have gotten trhough with a nail clipper on an outbound flight and got it taken away on the return leg.
    The threat has changed and we need to adjust to them. nail clippers is not the issue now but in the beginning there was a list of pointy items that became prohibited. Like I said to Matt, there are people who take the letter of the SOP as absolute and other who use the SOP and common sense to perform their duties.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by emshighway View Post
    The threat has changed and we need to adjust to them. nail clippers is not the issue now but in the beginning there was a list of pointy items that became prohibited. Like I said to Matt, there are people who take the letter of the SOP as absolute and other who use the SOP and common sense to perform their duties.
    Question for you EMS:
    IF the threats have changed & these new assaults are necessary what is TSA holding back ? It must be to dangerous to fly.
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  6. #21
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachrowsey View Post
    Question for you EMS:
    IF the threats have changed & these new assaults are necessary what is TSA holding back ? It must be to dangerous to fly.
    Well since you use the term assaults I would expect you are not actually looking for a legitimate answer from me.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by emshighway View Post
    Well since you use the term assaults I would expect you are not actually looking for a legitimate answer from me.
    EMS:
    Thats what I consider them. I have it on good authority that here if a TSO touches some one where they should not & leo is called & the person wants them arrested they will be arrested. I called the DA's office & asked them about it. The reply was if an arrest is made & we have enough evidence we will take the case.

    And yes I really would like an answer. Thanks.
    Train as if your life depends on it. Because some day it may.
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  8. #23
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachrowsey View Post
    EMS:
    Thats what I consider them. I have it on good authority that here if a TSO touches some one where they should not & leo is called & the person wants them arrested they will be arrested. I called the DA's office & asked them about it. The reply was if an arrest is made & we have enough evidence we will take the case.

    And yes I really would like an answer. Thanks.
    Yes, if a TSO was to go beyond the SOP then yes they should be arrested but since the patdown performed is described and trained specifically they are following federally mandated procedure and as such there is no specific intent of assault.

    You want any more questions call the TSA Office of Civil Rights and Liberties at 1-877-336-4872..
    Last edited by emshighway; 11-20-2010 at 06:13 PM.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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  9. #24
    Back in EARLY 2002 when my dad owned his 182, he used to fly into BOS for business to repair machinery. Therefor, he had a travel tool case with all necessary tools to dis-assemble his 182 and probably a small airliner for that matter, and his pocket knife. Even in the FBO you have to go through security at BOS. The tool case went through without a problem and he was stopped for having the knife on his belt clip. They were going to confiscate the knife. The official on duty claimed that it was a security threat and that my dad could not bring the knife on the plane. At this point I should mention that he was flying solo. I also beg to question how a solo occupant of an aircraft can be assumed to be liable to hold a 2.5" pocket knife to his own throat and hijack himself in his own airplane. He had the tools returned to him outside the security booth, put the knife in the tool case, had it RESCANNED, went through the metal detector and was sent on his way. Not to rip on anyone personally by ANY means, but not even private air travel is immune to stupidity.
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  10. #25
    Senior Member MarkLawrence's Avatar
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    I know the stories are coming out of the woodwork at the moment, and in all honesty, it's not putting TSA in a good light. I read this one this evening (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/) and while it hasn't been taken up with TSA yet, I'm sure it will. While this will probably come down to a case of "he said he said", but if it is true, the humiliation in this case should definitely have repercussions - and I hope it does.
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  11. #26
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLawrence View Post
    I know the stories are coming out of the woodwork at the moment, and in all honesty, it's not putting TSA in a good light. I read this one this evening (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/) and while it hasn't been taken up with TSA yet, I'm sure it will. While this will probably come down to a case of "he said he said", but if it is true, the humiliation in this case should definitely have repercussions - and I hope it does.
    Can't say anything but I feel sorry for the guy.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by emshighway View Post
    Yes, if a TSO was to go beyond the SOP then yes they should be arrested but since the patdown performed is described and trained specifically they are following federally mandated procedure and as such there is no specific intent of assault.

    You want any more questions call the TSA Office of Civil Rights and Liberties at 1-877-336-4872..
    So you are in fact telling me it it ok in the name of the govt. that a clerk can touch "my junk" or other places that would be assault out side the airport ?
    Train as if your life depends on it. Because some day it may.
    Opinions expressed are my own & not those of my employer.

  13. #28
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    I'm stealing this from Steve from Flyingwithfish.com but it explains the point:

    For those unfamiliar with the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution it reads “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

    While the new TSA enhanced pat downs may violate the Fourth Amendment on the surface, what most people are not aware of is that the 9th Circuit Court of the United States ruled on the search of passengers in airports back in 1973, which effectively suspends limited aspects of the Fourth Amendment while undergoing airport security screening.

    In 1973 the 9th Circuit Court rules on U.S. vs Davis, 482 F.2d 893, 908, there are key pieces of wording that give the TSA its power to search essentially any way they choose to. The key wording in this ruling includes “noting that airport screenings are considered to be administrative searches because they are conducted as part of a general regulatory scheme, where the essential administrative purpose is to prevent the carrying of weapons or explosives aboard aircraft.”

    U.S. vs Davis goes onto to state “[an administrative search is allowed if] no more intrusive or intensive than necessary, in light of current technology, to detect weapons or explosives, confined in good faith to that purpose, and passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly.”

    U.S. vs Davis was upheld by the 9th Circuit Court in 1986 in U.S. vs Pulido-Baquerizo, 800 F.2d 899, 901 with this ruling “To judge reasonableness, it is necessary to balance the right to be free of intrusion with society’s interest in safe air travel.”

    These 9th Circuit Court ruling laid the path for the creation of Public Law 107-71, the Aviation Transportation and Security Act, which was virtually unopposed by legislators when it was it was signed into law on the 19th of November 2001 by President George W. Bush. This law laid the groundwork for the Transportation Security Administration and the evolution of its current security procedures.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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  14. #29
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachrowsey View Post
    Question for you EMS:
    IF the threats have changed & these new assaults are necessary what is TSA holding back ? It must be to dangerous to fly.
    Well we are ar WAR!!
    And the TSA are updating their security procedures to make us safer with the latest technology. Like anything new the kinks need to be worked out both on the technical side
    and the human side. Like I wrote before I have no problem going through the scanner. Hell I just did 42 days of radiotherapy what do I care about a few more rads blasting my body.
    What annoys me are the stories of rude and insensitive TSA officers doing rough patdowns. A little diversity/human resource training can fix that and make everyone happy.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    Everyone loves to shake their fists on government bureaucracy. EMS highway…. It is easy to go after the TSA as there are so many people do not want their doctors to touch them. People do not want rads and do not want to be touched. Uninformed people take this and it will multiply the stress they are already going thru just to get on the plane itself. I for the life of me can not figure why you admit working for the TSA as no matter what happens, you are always on the loosing side of the argument….Even thou you are always correct in my eyes. You have Changed my view of your agency, sure there are lots of pimple faced little bastards that can not make a good decision to save their life that you have working for you that can bring the TSA in a bad light….but being a “Government Bureaucracy” that nobody really wants, you will always loose these battles….. UNTIL THE NEXT AVIATION ATTACK.


    Sorry for posting what you have known all along, Thank you for your posts as it made a difference to me, but why do you bang you head at every post when it does not do much more than boil your blood? Just curious….and I owe you a round in respect SIR!
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

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