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Thread: National Opt Out Day We. 24Nov

  1. #31
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    My take... Through the same technology minds that invented back-scatter scanners, they can find a way to not "show soo much detail"
    These machines have gone through testing and modifications for several years. I went down to the FAA/TSA labs in Atlantic City in 2003 and saw these machines. I viewed full open settings and the filters in place now are significantly different and protect privacy as much as possible while still being effective. There have been many photos on different websites that have been proven to be photoshopped to give people the false sense of what is being seen. Like I have said before the image is basically a chalky blob (for me more blob than chalky).

    The pat downs are now what they should have been from the beginning. You only get patted down to resolve an alarm so if you divest properly there shouldn't be much worry. The amount of people actually being patted down has actually decreased. Better technology and a more educated traveler have contributed to that.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
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  3. #33
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    EMS, if I got a tattoo, do they show on the scans? Does ink show?


    In retrospect I would guess no since its pigment and the scans cannot give an indication of color, right?


    Also, Im still siding with opting out for my children's sake. honest question, how do you pat down an 18 month old that can barely sit still?

    Also, how are these scans doe on infants and toddlers? The kids like to move so....how is that done on those kids?
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  4. #34
    Senior Member Idlewild's Avatar
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    I remember getting my first MANDATORY pat-down back in '79, when I was 13 and flying BA from LHR to JFK. It was done, if I remember correctly, by a female London Police Officer. It was non-invasive, although I wish it was because she wasn't bad looking at all, and it went quick. It's my opinion, that if the local county and/or city, supplies their police officers at the gates, officers who have a keen sense of street knowledge, instead of what's perceived as a hiring frenzy and kids walking around in National Guard garb and automatics, these security lines would be safer, quicker and more acceptable.
    Spotters have been Homeland Security before HS was a glimmer in the president's eye.

  5. #35
    Senior Member gonzalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirrodie View Post
    EMS, if I got a tattoo, do they show on the scans? Does ink show?


    In retrospect I would guess no since its pigment and the scans cannot give an indication of color, right?
    I don;t think so but they CAN ... With backscatter, it is simply a matter of adjusting the intensity of the beam and the sensitivity of the receiver. At work, X rays and Gamma rays are used all the time (medicine) and I can tell you GE and Siemens have REALLY GOOD sensors and I have seen them being clinically trialed here. There is a dermatology scanner being tested to detect microscopic sub layers of the skin to detect small skin cancers before they spread. They can dial in microns in 3D from the surface to the bone if they wanted to... all in color and 3D. The sensor is still small, about 2 1/4 inch but they expect to make it bigger. This one is not backscatter but it can be as I have been told.

    The ink in Tattoos are radioactively different enough from clear skin to make it visible from surrounding tissue.
    Manny Gonzalez
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  6. #36
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirrodie View Post

    Also, Im still siding with opting out for my children's sake. honest question, how do you pat down an 18 month old that can barely sit still?

    Also, how are these scans doe on infants and toddlers? The kids like to move so....how is that done on those kids?
    Children are exempt
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
    Ronald Reagan

  7. #37
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzalu View Post
    I don;t think so but they CAN ... With backscatter, it is simply a matter of adjusting the intensity of the beam and the sensitivity of the receiver. At work, X rays and Gamma rays are used all the time (medicine) and I can tell you GE and Siemens have REALLY GOOD sensors and I have seen them being clinically trialed here. There is a dermatology scanner being tested to detect microscopic sub layers of the skin to detect small skin cancers before they spread. They can dial in microns in 3D from the surface to the bone if they wanted to... all in color and 3D. The sensor is still small, about 2 1/4 inch but they expect to make it bigger. This one is not backscatter but it can be as I have been told.

    The ink in Tattoos are radioactively different enough from clear skin to make it visible from surrounding tissue.
    Nope, ink doesn't show up. At least my ink didn't show.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
    Ronald Reagan

  8. #38
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
    Ronald Reagan

  9. #39
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Airports Consider Congressmans Call To Ditch TSA

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=12185121&page=1

  10. #40
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Children are exempt? Is that then only a few day old policy? There was a youtube video of a 3 year old throwing a fit when being patted down so is this a very new change in policy?


    Also, if I keep my kids out of a scanner and they are exempt from a patdown, doesnt that open up a security risk? It blows the entire concept of security out of the water. It simply does not seem logical.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  11. #41
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Also, I meant to add the following. Now, I HATE this woman. But this is the FIRST time I have ever agreed with her.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w7sMjFiGp4
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  12. #42
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    You are all missing the point here. All of these issues work together. Does profiling work? Of course but it doesn't catch everyone looking to do bad to us. Profiling alone won't keep us safe, full body scanners doesn't catch everyone. Coulter is way off here. If we started aggressive profiling AQ would just change tactics and begin to recruit women or some other diversion. They are always changing to adjust to our measures and we have to adjust as well. Walk through the scanners and stop whining. Nobody is going to post a picture of your xrayed body on youtube. Jeez.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  13. #43
    Senior Member Spunker's Avatar
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    Very interesting post. I've enjoyed reading the responses. On my first trip to Europe, I was quite taken aback after arriving at Schiphol Airport to see fully uniformed and heavily armed soldiers patrolling the corridors. I do however feel the US Government and TSA are going beyond what they should be allowed to do. I don't feel any safer flying because of them. Yes, it is your individual choice to fly as opposed to other transportation means but we should not be made to feel degraded by our choice. We really don't have to just put up with it.
    Last edited by Spunker; 11-19-2010 at 02:30 PM.

  14. #44
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    Am I the only one who doesn't see the big deal over the scanners? From the images I have seen, it's a very skeletal, almost corpse like image, I can't see anyone even wanting to keep looking at something like that. Much less getting off to it. Plus, isn't it less radiation than getting an x-ray from a doctor?

  15. #45
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Plus, isn't it less radiation than getting an x-ray from a doctor?


    Highly suspect and debatable. I recall reading that a scan takes 20 seconds. I went to the dentist last week and it was a 1 second long scan per image.

    Effects on the body are cumulative, just like smoking. One cigarette does not kill you, its the constant exposure to it that can have deliterious effects. 20 seconds per scan on each flight.....there is no math on that and I doubt EMSHighway could support data otherwise.



    Nik Perriwen and others, for the record, I couldn't care les about TSA Joe seeing my junk. Heck, I'll whip it out and rest it on a table for everyone to have a look (enter magnifying glass jokes here).


    The simple fact is that the technology may affect the body. And I dont feel comfortable knowing how the gov was wrong in Agent Orange, 9-11 dust and I am sure other examples could be cited.


    Legistators can wax poetic about the safety but hte majority of these guys use private jets and never expose themselves to the nonsense.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

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