Kid giving instruction over ATC JFK

[moose135]

So if the public goes at this with pitchforks and torches in the name of safety, I can only imagine what they'll do when they find out that their quiet neighborhood GA airports are actually alive with fledgling student pilots, many of whom may even be younger than the controller's son.

I doubt that, Brian - while I haven't read anything yet listing the child's age, from most stories, and listening to the audio, he sounds very young. The minimum age to solo is 16, and 17 for a PPL. Yes, someone younger than that could take flight lessons, but they would have an instructor next to them.

I won't reveal the ATC's name but it was revealed by Katy Couric this evening on the CBS Evening News so it's not such a well-guarded secret. His name will probably be published in tomorrows' papers. Incidentally, the closure of JFK's Rwy 31L/13R was shown on all the network newscasts last night.

It's already on the web in some news stories.

This showed appalling judgment on the part of the controller, as well as his supervisor, in allowing this to happen not once, but twice on separate occasions. If they think this sort of behavior is acceptable, what else are they allowing to pass?

[NIKV69]

You have to wonder how it played out, however. The supervisor may have encouraged all of this to take place. Maybe not. Does it even matter?

Unfortunately it will come back to who was in charge at the time. Only really matters to him and his career because he will probably be held accountable. As a leader he or she should have known better. Maybe the controller did this without him knowing. It's a total grey area but there was a breakdown somewhere.

I can only imagine what they'll do when they find out that their quiet neighborhood GA airports are actually alive with fledgling student pilots, many of whom may even be younger than the controller's son.

I seriously doubt this.

I won't reveal the ATC's name but it was revealed by Katy Couric this evening on the CBS Evening News so it's not such a well-guarded secret. His name will probably be published in tomorrows' papers.

Well let them do it. No reason for you to. Link the source.

[emshighway]

The news media is releasing his name and at his home. He has twin boys.

[NLovis]

The news media is releasing his name and at his home. He has twin boys.

Well game over on your privacy buddy.

[Speedbird1]

Yes, the controller's name is revealed this morning as I predicted. In a way I sympathize with him as it was just routine departures involved but suppose it had been an emergency? I am a retired teacher. Every year, each school in every borough had a kid as "Principal of the Day". He would basically watch what the real principal does and sit in the principal's chair in the office but he would never be allowed to speak to parents about their child's progress or make decisions as such. This incident is amusing about the controllers sons. The guy who snuck through a security exit at EWR to get a final goodby kiss from his fiance was also amusing but now he could be sentenced to jail. As planespotters we are all aware of how our standing near runways looks suspicious especially if we are listening to scanners although we are merely doing our hobby so we can sympathize with the controller. Nowadays, every "off the cuff" statement or being in the wrong place can be misconstrued as suspicious. What basically was a dad wanting to show his sons how being a controller backfired into front-page news. I recall in the good old days when you could speak freely and stand near runways with zoom lenses and nobody would bother you. I often stood at the end of Rwy 31R by the "WW" taxiway and would wave to pilots taxying-off. Try doing that now ! Sad times.

[Derf]

Good Parent, Bad Call!

Obviously the dad knew that the son could do it because the child was spot on. I was very impressed with the child. If anyone on those aircraft were not feeling good about flying and were listening they would have been really shaken up. Yes he was supervised, and yes he was good, but that is not a judgment call for the controller and this is a judgement call. That is why the FAA requires you to be licensed to do that. Bad Call, Good dad.

Growing up at JFK, I remember things that people would be shocked at today...but I never keyed up the mic called the tower, or ground. :lol:

[NLovis]

Good Parent, Bad Call!

Obviously the dad knew that the son could do it because the child was spot on. I was very impressed with the child. If anyone on those aircraft were not feeling good about flying and were listening they would have been really shaken up. Yes he was supervised, and yes he was good, but that is not a judgment call for the controller and this is a judgement call. That is why the FAA requires you to be licensed to do that. Bad Call, Good dad.

Growing up at JFK, I remember things that people would be shocked at today...but I never keyed up the mic called the tower, or ground. :lol:

Yea I know what you mean. In the old days I was able to get a vistor's pass at 87 (at that time Polar Air/Atlas) and be in the ramp. I also spotted. My roots right there. Also get into USAirways at LGA with my father and nobody complained. I was on the ramp there actually outside a few times. Though the peak was being in the cockpit of a 737 classic. Man good times. Rumor now is the father also let his daughter talk as well.

[Speedbird1]

I can understand why many of us find the entire incident as amusing but as a result there will be repercussions. Those involved are going to be re=trained and will probably be demoted. Visitors will no longer be allowed up to the Tower; including spouses and kids. I doubt if even pilots will now be allowed to come up to talk. In my mind, the worst part is that the public now has the misconception that many controllers are buffoons and this is just plain wrong. I have spent countless hours listening to ATC in the past and how they handle the stress is beyond me. I get nervous just viewing aircraft movements on Passur. All it takes is one or two such incidents to cast a bad shadow on professionals. I was a teacher for 32 years and every time I read an article about how easy teachers have it (6-hour days, looking out the window, numerous free periods, 3 months vacation, early retirement,etc) was frustrating. What about all the degrading jokes being told now about controllers? The media, as usual, blew it out of proportion. Nowadays, every action in our lives is being watched and scrutinized. Sadly, having a sense of humor on the job is not permissible anymore. I recently posted about humorous comments I've heard from the tower controllers; this can no longer be the case. The good old Days!

[Speedbird1]

Now, the pilots may be in trouble. The tapes reveal that the Jet Blue and Aeromexico pilots obviously knew that the instructions to taxy and for take-off were given by kids, they could be investigated, too. It seems that the FAA feels that those instructions could have been made by hackers, or even worse, by terrorists attempting to cause havoc at JFK. This I heard from one of the local TV news reports last night. Evidently it's possible for hackers to give pilots false instructions. The pilots should have asked the kids to give their IDs, age, or to switch them to a different controller. Remember what happened in the film "Die Hard 2" when the glideslope was mis-aligned for arrivals ?

[Futterman]

I'd like you all to take a look at this piece by Don Brown, a retired Atlanta center controller who maintains a blog called "Get The Flick". He's a well-rounded guy with an impressive range of discussions to sort through. His latest post summarizes the pro-ATC dad sentiments nicely. And very effectively, I think.

:arrow: Get The Flick - "When Daddy Let Me Drive"

So if the public goes at this with pitchforks and torches in the name of safety, I can only imagine what they'll do when they find out that their quiet neighborhood GA airports are actually alive with fledgling student pilots, many of whom may even be younger than the controller's son.

I doubt that, Brian - while I haven't read anything yet listing the child's age, from most stories, and listening to the audio, he sounds very young. The minimum age to solo is 16, and 17 for a PPL. Yes, someone younger than that could take flight lessons, but they would have an instructor next to them.

True, Moose, an exaggeration on my part. But age alone sometimes doesn't prevent pilots who are a Charlie-Foxtrot on the radios from earning their wings. Point being that threats similar to, and in excess of, what the kid and his dad brought to the table are alive and well.

Brian

[NLovis]

Now, the pilots may be in trouble. The tapes reveal that the Jet Blue and Aeromexico pilots obviously knew that the instructions to taxy and for take-off were given by kids, they could be investigated, too. It seems that the FAA feels that those instructions could have been made by hackers, or even worse, by terrorists attempting to cause havoc at JFK. This I heard from one of the local TV news reports last night. Evidently it's possible for hackers to give pilots false instructions. The pilots should have asked the kids to give their IDs, age, or to switch them to a different controller. Remember what happened in the film "Die Hard 2" when the glideslope was mis-aligned for arrivals ?

That sounds very unlikely. Common sense would say if there was a problem or not. The pilots might have figured out it was a father letting the kid talk. Hell when I have a kid i'm going to try and do what my father did with me. Take me to work. Althouhg I asked to go :mrgreen:

[Gerard]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/201 ... _mess.html

[NIKV69]

Not surprising, It's sad how the media has spun this in fact Ed Schultz's take on it made me sick. Though this man erred badly I don't think at any point was anyone in danger. I think the FAA should render a punishment along the lines of an unpaid suspension and an official reprimand and be done with it. No need to keep the media circus going.

[DHG750R]

Not surprising, It's sad how the media has spun this in fact Ed Schultz's take on it made me sick. Though this man erred badly I don't think at any point was anyone in danger. I think the FAA should render a punishment along the lines of an unpaid suspension and an official reprimand and be done with it. No need to keep the media circus going.

Agreed,
He displayed poor judgement and put the career of him and his supv on the line, not endangered lives as many suggested (The media).

His name being put out there is awful, especially for his kids..
Darrell

[Mayi757]

This country is in bad shape because common sense is something foreign to most people. They need to find a way to make it into a school subject.

On the FOX news morning show this guy from one of the online travel websites (forget the name) said this was clearly dangerous because ...a long time ago a Russian pilot let their kids inside an Airbus A319 and the plane crashed...

FAIL

If this is the best the news channels can do, that tells me 90% of what they report is probably biased/exaggerated/plain wrong.

I'm convinced this kid did a much better job than the crazy controller JFK used to have :lol: