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Thread: Thunderbirds at Coney island.

  1. #121
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels bid every year to be in Jones Beach. They do not have room for most of the performers and have to cut out lots of acts for time is limited. If they let everyone perform, it would be 4 days long and nobody would fly twice! And it would cost more than it would bring in.
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels bid every year to be in Jones Beach. They do not have room for most of the performers and have to cut out lots of acts for time is limited. If they let everyone perform, it would be 4 days long and nobody would fly twice! And it would cost more than it would bring in.
    Are you saying that the T-Birds and Blues reach out and "request" to fly this show? I thought it was the other way around (ie, Jones beach organizers had to request the planes).

    Why not start the show 1 hour earlier, and extend it 1 hour longer? Also, there does seem to be some down time between performances.

    They could also try and make the days performers more jets, and less props, or vice versa.

  3. #123
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels bid every year to be in Jones Beach. .
    I thought they just rotated every year?

  4. #124
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    I was told that that both requested it for the last 2 years. Many requests are denied as there are way to many request for performers for this airshow. It comes from a good source as does most of the info but it is never 100%. When it comes down to airshows, everything is fluid and changes as we saw in this thread. A confirmed airshow with all dates confirmed went belly up.
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  5. #125
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird1 View Post
    They wasted all of our times since they never performed over Coney Island and nobody knows the reason for sure.
    Other than reading some posts in this thread, they didn't waste any of our time...it's not like you were sitting on the beach all day waiting for them to perform, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird1 View Post
    Regarding the cash payment, the show was ultimately moved to a small town in Nebraska which I doubt could pay $5000 at the last minute.
    They didn't move their show to a "small town in Nebraska". They performed at the annual air show at Offutt Air Force Base

  6. #126
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird1 View Post
    ....We'll never know the real answer but.............
    You are way too high strung, I explained the answer and will not go into any further details. Just because you spoke to someone who had NOTHING TO DO with the airshow in any way and they did not have the answer does not mean that nobody knows the answer. Please reread my posts because I am not going into any further detail.

    Everyone has different answers because the people in the know are not talking much as not to piss off those who's support they need for next years show. If you think for one minute that the people who have shed blood sweat and tears to bring it to NY and then could not make it happen due to circumstances beyond their control...but still fought for it, and they owe you answers or an apology, you are very mistaken!
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  7. #127
    Moderator USAF Pilot 07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird1 View Post
    They wasted all of our times since they never performed over Coney Island and nobody knows the reason for sure. I spoke to USAF reps over at the Intrepid last month during Air Force Week and they didn't know. Various explanations have been: the NYPD wouldn't give them the necessary permits to perform, the NYC airspace is too crowded, and that Coney Island needed to sponsor the show with a $5000 cash payment. We'll never know the real answer but a lot of us here were extremely disappointed especially since that weekend had gorgeous weather. Regarding the cash payment, the show was ultimately moved to a small town in Nebraska which I doubt could pay $5000 at the last minute.
    Like Moose said, I don't know how they wasted your time - they cancelled the show before the event and before anyone would have headed out to the event. The only people's time they may have wasted were those who were on the airshow committee or involved in planning this. Also, I'm pretty sure the Omaha airshow was always scheduled to have the Tbirds - they moved them from NYC to Atlantic City for their airshow.

    I don't think the reason for cancellation was a Thunderbird or even an Air Force thing. All Air Force weeks in the US (there are usually 3 or 4 per year in different cities) automatically get the Thunderbirds (i.e. AFAIK the city that gets it doesn't pay or have to raise $5000 to host them). The funding is already set aside when the cities are picked at the beginning of the year as part of the AF Week Budget. I think it seriously came down to the fact that city didn't want to pay the NYPD and other various city agencies (traffic, EMTs etc..) overtime to work this event. Something like this could cost the city upwards of $100,000 in manning/contingency planning etc...

    Also, keep in mind, as much as you and I like airplanes, a lot of people don't and freak out about low flying airplanes making a lot of noise near buildings. From what I hear from a pretty reliable source, Mayor Bloomberg personally called the commander of the Operations Group down at McGuire to pretty much tell him that the KC10 doing the RedBulls flyover was not going to come close to NYC.

    Oh well, maybe another year....

  8. #128
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07 View Post
    Like Moose said, I don't know how they wasted your time - they cancelled the show before the event and before anyone would have headed out to the event. The only people's time they may have wasted were those who were on the airshow committee or involved in planning this. Also, I'm pretty sure the Omaha airshow was always scheduled to have the Tbirds - they moved them from NYC to Atlantic City for their airshow.
    I believe in the original schedule the TBirds were to fly AC Wed then do CI Sat/Sun. So Nebraska was the rescheduled shows. And yeah I was dissapointed CI was cancelled it would have been very cool but at least (for me) since I was on vacay that week I decided to do a road trip to AC and had an absolute blast!!

  9. #129
    Senior Member Speedbird1's Avatar
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    I misspoke out of anger. I was anticipating this show for months. I am unable to go to the ACY or Jones Beach shows as I cannot travel long distances for medical reasons. Many guys here on the forum take everything I say too literally; you must read my posts using " a fine tooth comb". When I said it wasted our time, I was referring to all the questions posed about where the Thunderbirds would park and how long a runway would be needed for the air show,et., which never happened. Wasn't that wasting all our times and what about those enthusiasts who arranged to visit NYC for that weekend just to view the airshow? Then had to cancel. I repeat I have the upmost respect for the USAF and in no way was blaming them and apologize if I offended anyone. We must realize that NYC will probably never have an airshow again since 9-11. Regards to all.

  10. #130
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird1 View Post
    ...... We must realize that NYC will probably never have an airshow again since....
    This is not true as there has been airshows in NYC after 9-11 already. And lets not also forget the not normal shows like the Red Arrows and Red bull. As per the long runway...They landed at Farmingdale last year.
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  11. #131
    Senior Member Tom_Turner's Avatar
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    No B52 flyover at Citifield either...and no replacement aircraft...

  12. #132
    Senior Member Tom_Turner's Avatar
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    Re-reading the thread, I certainly hope the reason for the cancellation was not NYPD Over Time. NYC has to get over this notion that an army of police milling about is needed for every event. It simply isn't. For some it is, or might be, and for others it is not. Its an airshow and its not Altamont in 1969. Moreover its in New York City... no offense intended, but there are a lot of things to do in New York City. No matter how well publicized (this one was not, but even if it was) a lot of people are not going to know or care or want to know. And if they do know, they will not be attending. There is *not* miles and miles of parking at Coney Island. In fact there is not much at all. Its come *very* early or come by Public Transportation or not at all. People in New York City know this. Its not going to be Jones Beach. If one looks at images of Coney Island back as late as the early 1960s, and certainly for decades before that, (people did not typically have air conditioning or "refrigeration" appliances) one would notice you barely can see the sand/beach. The beach was covered by --- people. Those were real "crowds". And, it was apparently an every day, sunny day/hot day, event in the summer. No riots. No army of police / OT.

    Tom

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