Infamous JFK air traffic controller now at ISP!

[Tom_Turner]

(I retired from the FAA at ISP in Feb. 2008).

Hi Bob! You moved to Indiana? Hope all is well.

Time enough now to maybe scan some of those slides of yesteryear? We'd love to see them someday.

Tom

[Futterman]

I remember when AA 777 called me in the summer of 2008: "Dude, listen to the guy on clearance and tell me if he sounds famililar..." Sure enough, it was Arnold "Arnie" Frank.

We had a few frustrated exchanges one day when an Orion was doing teardrop touch-and-goes up and down both ends of 6/24 about what runway I wanted to take off on and how we were going to maneuver for pattern work. I had no idea what the P3 was doing, and he didn't see a need to share any details or provide any guidance other than "ugh, just let me know what you're going to do, I don't care."

As far as professionalism goes, I'd say he's uniquely skilled. His defense for the JFK debacle was that it was late at night (or early morning, i.e. dark), with zero visibility from the tower (working with ground radar and radio calls only), and lots of airplanes. He managed the situation and completed the job safely.

I worked with this guy at ISP for several years (I retired from the FAA at ISP in Feb. 2008). He was given the chance to transfer from JFK to ISP or be fired from what I understand. Not a bad guy, but very quick tempered on the frequency especially if things don't go the way he thinks it should. As for his time at JFK, they finnally got tired of the way he did things and the way he talked to pilots. That's my understanding of what happened.

I took a PPL student up to the tower to show him the ATC side of things after a lesson one day (at least that's what I told him; I just wanted to meet this guy). What we hear on the radio is not just his controller persona, it's actually how he seemed to act in normal conversation. He explained the same thing - how the FAA gave him an ultimatum, either take ISP and a pay cut or get the boot - and he had several choice words for LiveATC when I mentioned that he is a bit of an internet celebrity.

Bob, what are you doing in Evansville? I'm up in West Lafayette.

Brian

[ch2tdriver]

Oh yeah.......we were worked by this guy a few weeks ago and I see what you mean. Here is what transpired in our case:

I was with my student in a C-150 and he is just getting started with the radios. After copying clearence he called up ground and spoke to this guy.

40X: LI Ground....Cessna 40X....Student Pilot with information India at Mid Island....Taxi for Takeoff.

Ground: Cessna 40X Ground......You don't say TAKEOFF, only I say TAKEOFF.......but that's beside the <mumble as voice trails off>. Taxi to Runway 33L via A, S, Left on C and a right on 10.

What was he getting at? OK...so now my student knows to keep it to "Taxi Active" or just "Taxi...", but I don't see why he felt he had to say it the way he did? I checked the AIM and Pilot/Controller glossary but found nothing that specifically states how one should contact Ground and any phraseology to avoid.

Any ideas?

Pete

[Futterman]

ch2tdriver,

*sigh*

Air traffic controllers are the only ones who are prohibited from saying "takeoff" outside of "cleared for takeoff". Sure, it's a bad idea for pilots to bring it up until they're on the runway, but nothing prohibits it. Arnie blew his top...yet again.

I'd just tell your student to take it in stride and try to laugh it off as best you can. Bring him up to the tower sometime - I did with my student the other summer and we met some of the controllers - including everybody's favorite - and it turned out to be a valuable experience for both my student and myself.

Brian

[ch2tdriver]

Brian,

Thanks for the advice. Nowadays do you need to call ahead in order to visit the tower?

Also I guess that it is best to use "Ready for Taxi", "Taxi active" and even when ready to go to say "Ready for Departure" to play it safe?

Pete

[Big Tim #70]

Brian,

Thanks for the advice. Nowadays do you need to call ahead in order to visit the tower?

Also I guess that it is best to use "Ready for Taxi", "Taxi active" and even when ready to go to say "Ready for Departure" to play it safe?

Pete

Hey Pete,

Are you an instructor at Mid Island?