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Thread: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

  1. #31
    Senior Member cancidas's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    Who is "we"? We are falling into the trap of thinking this site is the end all of the area's spotting.
    by "we" i mean we veterans who have been doing this for some time now. we've pretty much come to a consensus over the years of how to act and how not to act and how to get what we wanted out of the day. we've all made mistakes and learned from them. remember rockaway blvd nick? i'm digging all the way back to pre-NYCA days which was how i got my start. i didn't mean to ensue that this site, or any other site or online reference is the bible all spotters should abide by.

    jerslice covered the points that i didn't, in a bit more detail too:
    Quote Originally Posted by jerslice
    ...If the recommendation (as it has been so far) is to stay the f away, then take their advice and follow it.
    ...Certain spots that might not be on guides that seem so obvious to you are equally as obvious to us veteran locals too. If it isn't on the guide - there's a reason for it. By going somewhere that isn't recognized as an acceptable location by the local veterans you could ruin years of hard work and good reputations.
    I have both seen myself and heard from others the serious repercussions that the mistake of one can have on the whole spotting community. Security can start coming down hard in previously accessible locations and those spots can even close - permanently. Nevermind the fact perhaps a location was left off because security there has a history of questioning, arrest, and confiscation: maybe it wasn't listed to protect you getting kicked out or worse.
    it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.

  2. #32
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Rockaway Blvd is a little different that the situations we are discussing Matt. Back thenot was hot because it was still a short time after 9/11. I have shot there numerous times with little or no problem from PA and have been told that area is fine to shoot. It is not airport property and as long as you don't bring out a huge group your fine. Airport property is a different matter and I was merely showing how not using some common sense can ruin it for other spotters which is what basically has happened in certain areas.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  3. #33
    Senior Member george's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    I haven't been a member here long but I have gotten a lot of good advice from here. I originally found this site after just googling "places to take pictures of planes" I will admit I don't know every plane i see fly in but I love watching them land and take off and taking pictures of them. This weekend I finally went spotting at LGA. Thanks to the spotting guides here I went to Plane View park this past Monday (I dragged a friend of mine out with me) I got a few good pictures and was acting like a little kid every time a plane few in. The pictures didnt come out all that great but there are one or two that I am really happy with :D

    Without this site and the hard work of everyone here I would never have known where to go. I just want to thank everyone for that. Hopefully sooner or later I will get the courage to head over to some spotting near JFK (I also want to get better lenses for my Canon XSI) But at least when I do go to spot I will know where to go based on the guides from here.

    I have also gotten good advice from here on dealing with the authorities that patrol the areas that are used for spotting. But basically if a police officer whether it be NCPD, NYPD OR PAPD tell me to move I am gonna move, plain and simple. It doesn't make any sense to me to argue with them cause your not going to win. Same thing if I am on private property and the manager of the place I am at tells me to leave..

    Just my 2 cents

    George

  4. #34
    Senior Member Delta777LR's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by george
    I haven't been a member here long but I have gotten a lot of good advice from here. I originally found this site after just googling "places to take pictures of planes" I will admit I don't know every plane i see fly in but I love watching them land and take off and taking pictures of them. This weekend I finally went spotting at LGA. Thanks to the spotting guides here I went to Plane View park this past Monday (I dragged a friend of mine out with me) I got a few good pictures and was acting like a little kid every time a plane few in. The pictures didnt come out all that great but there are one or two that I am really happy with :D

    Without this site and the hard work of everyone here I would never have known where to go. I just want to thank everyone for that. Hopefully sooner or later I will get the courage to head over to some spotting near JFK (I also want to get better lenses for my Canon XSI) But at least when I do go to spot I will know where to go based on the guides from here.

    I have also gotten good advice from here on dealing with the authorities that patrol the areas that are used for spotting. But basically if a police officer whether it be NCPD, NYPD OR PAPD tell me to move I am gonna move, plain and simple. It doesn't make any sense to me to argue with them cause your not going to win. Same thing if I am on private property and the manager of the place I am at tells me to leave..

    Just my 2 cents

    George

    I agree with you.. Most times the cops are pretty familiar who we are espeacialy places like Firestone, me and a few others have been questioned by NCPD there but they rarely give us a hard time while spotting there. And over there, its actually not public. But there are time where there are going to be aggresive cops around to want to false you to leave or so on. I was once stopped at Planeview Park for questioning a few months ago, and normaly they wouldnt tell you to leave the park or to stop taking pictures there, however I was told by the PAPD officer that I was not allowed to take pictures there, its very rare, but I had to deal with it. Most times at Planeview the cops mostly drive by see us and dont really bother with us. But the bottom line is, and ill say it again, dont waste your time arguing with the officers, 1. That could get you thrown to jail, 2, Like most of us said, youre not gonna win. Just obey and everything will be alot easier.
    Sergio has been a huge Delta Air Lines fan since 1992!!

    Sergio Cardona

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos....e=1&display=15

  5. #35
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...



    Too late to this thread.

    A lot of valid pts have been made about individual behavior. Blaming the PAPD is not the answer and taking ownership of one's actions, acknowledging one's behavior and growing as a person is an answer.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  6. #36
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Ah, Phil, the memories this brings back. Remember the ride we shared in the paddy wagon to the NYPD station house? Remember the follow-up phone calls after being stopped by the police? Remember the FBI and Secret Service knocking at your door to ask questions about your spotting adventures? Remember the group sitting in the car watching Josh and I get questioned at HO Beach by NYPD? You guys even took a picture of that ...



    You have no idea how surprised I was to have the officer stand back while I took a photo. That was amazing. Thankfully I haven't been stopped in a while so I thought things were getting better. After looking at this thread I'm wondering ... am I wrong:) I hope not.

    The last few times I have been out have been without incident and I am thankful for that. I think some have stated good advice for those who wish to live within the existing system. Now, let's hope they take the advice and don't make things worse for all of us.

    Art

  7. #37
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    haha, good times, Art. I'm glad we as a group have progressed beyond the constant negative attention from law enforcement and tend to enjoy our hobby much more comfortably.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  8. #38
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    That is by far my favorite Art Brett picture!
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  9. #39
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by AAGold
    I think some have stated good advice for those who wish to live within the existing system.


    Now, let's hope they take the advice and don't make things worse for all of us.



    I firmly believe this needs to be read and re-read. :borat:
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  10. #40
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by mmedford
    *feeling pretty good to have privs* at this time...
    Better to have creds :borat:
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
    Ronald Reagan

  11. #41
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by mmedford
    *feeling pretty good to have privs* at this time...
    Just keep within the speed limit on the ramp please ;)

  12. #42
    Senior Member Tom_Turner's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Just in all fairness to darlyn, it is entirely possible to call up Port or PAPD and be granted permission to shoot at all "public" areas at EWR... and many have shot there when doing so, or without calling even, for hours at at time with no issues.

    The only problem there is the odds really mitigate against "planning" a day there, because it can and probably will, come to an abrupt end very early on... courtesy of PAPD, Newark City Police, Elizabeth City Police, NJ State Troopers, TSA, US Customs Police, Correction Officers, IKEA Security, etc etc..and even immediately after being granted permission by another officer or any of the above named agencies. And, it won't always be pleasant - threats to impound automobile, arrest, confiscation of camera etc... [Not to suggest every individual authority will do that, again, there are plenty of sympathetic folks on all the forces above and the Port Authority as well, but these are real examples on the negative end of the spectrum]

    Also, to darlyn's point, its not a radical idea to think one CAN shoot *AT* EWR. Last I knew Port doesn't have a policy against photography - and they're wise in that. They enforce at will, on the fly, at the discretion of whoever is in the field. This puts them in, to date at least, a much more sophisticated and flexible position than zealots and MTA and NJ Transit that found themselves on the losing end of legal challenges. To that end, I really have never understood the servile mentality that obtains in our area with regard to "private" property. I certainly respect law enforcement and I respect "private" property - I don't feel I have a "right" to shoot wherever I want, whenever I want, but neither do I feel its prudent or rational to have photography "banned" ipso facto by fiat or capricious whim at quasi public/private areas.

    Lets keep in mind that while on the one hand, Port Authority, (or MassPort or whoever) make the rules (no small matter there, and it is totally reasonable.. they need to run their agencies and administer to the facilities), they were created in large part to do what was necessary to run those facilities, freeing up politicians from doing the "wrong" thing, taking the $$$ off budget of the respective city/state etc. We are not talking about "trespassing" in the same sense as sunbathing at some corporate park or setting up a picnic on someone's lawn.

    As for all the received wisdom on spotting locations, and who did what and when, it is all very problematic. Nearly everyone in this hobby at one time or another pushed the envelope. The only spots we're likely to "lose" due to some newbies insistence at being at, are spots that most here would say we shouldn't be at anyway. Case in point.. EWR itself.

    Sure it would be nice to think a "spot" is not lost in someone's effort to fleet jetBlue on a rainy day, but as Nick indicated, it can't be stopped.

    No "new" spots are being "discovered" apart from adjacent spots, and every year we seem to lose at least one that was at one time "okay" to shoot at. I really have wondered if this hobby, in our area, really "scales up" effectively or not. Can't next month we just come to find out that "Firestone" is private property (which it is) and time for everyone to move on?

    Tom
    "Keep 'em Flying"

  13. #43
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Turner
    No "new" spots are being "discovered" apart from adjacent spots, and every year we seem to lose at least one that was at one time "okay" to shoot at. I really have wondered if this hobby, in our area, really "scales up" effectively or not. Can't next month we just come to find out that "Firestone" is private property (which it is) and time for everyone to move on? Tom
    There are few handful of us that have been doing this since 80's. Visiting JFK regularly and following the hobby and spending a day at "Kennedy".
    In 80's one could just go to roof terrace on famous PanAm and get these shots.


    In 90's, it was possible to park car at the fence along the Rockway Blvd and spend a day. And we even had "mounds" off the Blvd.


    If this continues, we'll be taking pics from Calverton VOR for Kennedy approach!

    I have travelled to airports over the world for spotting only and I can tell you one universal rule that I have come across. An action of one spotter can and will shut down a spot for good.

    Law enforcement will (and should) always have upper hand on any given situation. We can debate the 'rights' however I do not believe a new spotter have neither will power, resiliency, or resources to put up any lengthy legal battle with the law enforcement. And besides to the non-spotting world, this may not be a very legitimate hobby.

    There are few spotting groups in Europe and Asia that have made strides and after working with the authorities have been able to provide spotting days (on ramp too!) and make things better for the hobby. However this happens only if everyone is on same page and for the cause. Sorry to point the cliche, there is no "i" in spotting! While it maybe tempting to get that unique shot, no one remembers the top of the day shot on any aviation site from last year. Majority of folks that do this is just to have fun and be around jetliners. And while few have tried, there are very few who ends up making $$ off the hobby to quit their daily jobs.

    I feel for the new spotters for their love of hobby and being around jetliners. And I can bet any spotter who has been following hobby over 25+ years will agree to that. But spotting in today's environment is very complex, and one must do with understanding and with responsibility.

    Raj

  14. #44
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    let me guess the DL A310s pic was taken around uhh 1993?

    Miss those Air Jamaica buses.

    I think I've seen your pictures from JFK before if your name is Rajesh Changela, lol. I'm not a stalker or anything :borat: I've just been looking at pix ever since airliner pictures started to get on the web.

    The lack of common sense by some authorities It's pretty sad, and I'm glad I got started a few years before 9-11. With the aviation paranoia (justified or not) these days if one really wants to enjoy getting aircraft shots at large airports without being hassled, one has to go out of the US, far away to places like Europe or Asia. Nowadays, what I do is time the plane I want to get, take my shot and leave. Spotters should use common sense and not be camping out so you are obvious and then kicked out.

    Also, if you are sporting a month-old beard, carrying some enormous bazooka lens and standing there in the open aiming it at airplanes, you ain't gonna last too long before the police comes over (trust me)

    ..or like my friend says, buy a blonde wig

  15. #45
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Re: Just spoke with KEWR PAPD and guess what they have to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi757
    Also, if you are sporting a month-old beard, carrying some enormous bazooka lens and standing there in the open aiming it at airplanes, you ain't gonna last too long before the police comes over (trust me)
    Ah, I guess that's my problem...


    We did have NCPD come check us out at Firestone once because of a report of "15 Arab men taking pictures of airplanes". Even the officer was laughing when he told me that one.

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