Walking around without ID.. NJ Police hard at work...

[Tom_Turner]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090815/D9A30C6G1.html

You're Bob Dylan? NJ police want to see some ID

Aug 14, 8:49 PM

By WAYNE PARRY

Rock legend Bob Dylan was treated like a complete unknown by police in a New Jersey shore community when a resident called to report someone wandering around the neighborhood.

Dylan was in Long Branch, about a two-hour drive south of New York City, on July 23 as part of a tour with Willie Nelson and John Mellencamp that was to play at a baseball stadium in nearby Lakewood.

A 24-year-old police officer apparently was unaware of who Dylan is and asked him for identification, Long Branch business administrator Howard Woolley said Friday.

"I don't think she was familiar with his entire body of work," Woolley said.

The incident began at 5 p.m. when a resident said a man was wandering around a low-income, predominantly minority neighborhood several blocks from the oceanfront looking at houses.

The police officer drove up to Dylan, who was wearing a blue jacket, and asked him his name. According to Woolley, the following exchange ensued:

"What is your name, sir?" the officer asked.

"Bob Dylan," Dylan said.

"OK, what are you doing here?" the officer asked.

"I'm on tour," the singer replied.

A second officer, also in his 20s, responded to assist the first officer. He, too, apparently was unfamiliar with Dylan, Woolley said.

The officers asked Dylan for identification. The singer of such classics as "Like a Rolling Stone" and "Blowin' in the Wind" said that he didn't have any ID with him, that he was just walking around looking at houses to pass some time before that night's show.

The officers asked Dylan, 68, to accompany them back to the Ocean Place Resort and Spa, where the performers were staying. Once there, tour staff vouched for Dylan.

The officers thanked him for his cooperation.

"He couldn't have been any nicer to them," Woolley added.

How did it feel? A Dylan publicist did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday.

[PhilDernerJr]

It seems as though everything went as it should in a case like this. The officer didn't know who he was, and instead of tasing him or anything, she just gave him a ride back and cleared it all up very respectfully.

[Tom_Turner]

Phil, I think everything went exactly the way it is NOT supposed to go in this case...

WHY does someone/anyone NEED to take a ride in a police car "back" to their ID/hotel in the first place?

Our civil rights are totally jacked in cases like this.... We are NOT Required to walk around with ID... but make that not supposed to be I guess ...

They hadn't heard of him...and certainly they would not have heard of you or me either... They can be as suspicious as they want of someone without ID or of a white person in a black neighborhood, (if that was the issue) etc etc.. Its quite aggressive on their part that they NEED to satisfy their suspicion (of what?) with no clear example of law breaking and I take it, require "cooperation".

Tom

[NIKV69]

and instead of tasing him or anything, she just gave him a ride back and cleared it all up very respectfully.

You make it sound like LO just tases people for the sake of doing it Phil? From the story Dylan was very cooperative and complied with the officers so I doubt the taser would have ever been a consideration.

Phil, I think everything went exactly the way it is NOT supposed to go in this case...

WHY does someone/anyone NEED to take a ride in a police car "back" to their ID/hotel in the first place?

Our civil rights are totally jacked in cases like this.... We are NOT Required to walk around with ID... but make that not supposed to be I guess ...

They hadn't heard of him...and certainly they would not have heard of you or me either... They can be as suspicious as they want of someone without ID or of a white person in a black neighborhood, (if that was the issue) etc etc.. Its quite aggressive on their part that they NEED to satisfy their suspicion (of what?) with no clear example of law breaking and I take it, require "cooperation".

Tom I am at a loss here. Are you saying they should have just let him go on his merry way? Not everyone knows who Bob Dylan is and lets face it no matter how talented he is his appearance is awful. If they get a call of suspicious whatever let them run it down. You should be carrying your ID and if the officers deems you suspicious and want to know who you are they have every right to do so.

[Tom_Turner]

Tom I am at a loss here. Are you saying they should have just let him go on his merry way? Not everyone knows who Bob Dylan is and lets face it no matter how talented he is his appearance is awful. If they get a call of suspicious whatever let them run it down. You should be carrying your ID and if the officers deems you suspicious and want to know who you are they have every right to do so.

Believe it or not, thats *EXACTLY* what I think...he should go on his "merry way" - its called Freedom.

Yes, if the police get a call of something or someone "suspicious" - the follow up is suspicion of what exactly?

Looking at houses? Having no ID? I understand about his "appearance" but for the most part we don't have "laws" about that yet... I presume he looked his decrepit self, but unless his shoes perhaps had holes in them or whatever upon investigation, he's likely not a vagrant.

If the guy can answer a question and does not appear drunk, what is this right for the police to know who you are? Its not like he didn't answer the question.

They can't make a call?

Tom

[emshighway]

Tom I am at a loss here. Are you saying they should have just let him go on his merry way? Not everyone knows who Bob Dylan is and lets face it no matter how talented he is his appearance is awful. If they get a call of suspicious whatever let them run it down. You should be carrying your ID and if the officers deems you suspicious and want to know who you are they have every right to do so.

Believe it or not, thats *EXACTLY* what I think...he should go on his "merry way" - its called Freedom.

Yes, if the police get a call of something or someone "suspicious" - the follow up is suspicion of what exactly?

Looking at houses? Having no ID? I understand about his "appearance" but for the most part we don't have "laws" about that yet... I presume he looked his decrepit self, but unless his shoes perhaps had holes in them or whatever upon investigation, he's likely not a vagrant.

If the guy can answer a question and does not appear drunk, what is this right for the police to know who you are? Its not like he didn't answer the question.

They can't make a call?

Tom

Have you seen Bob Dylan? He looks like a vagrant. They responded to a call, he couldn't identify himself properly and they officers took steps to do so.

Make a call to who? "Central, can we have an old fart officer respond to ID this guy?"

[Tom_Turner]

EMS, he's a senior citizen at this point. I am sure he answered the question coherently (since apparently he was not drunk or high). The guy has a fairly good vocabulary.

Must've known where the hotel was, where the performance space was (more or less).. don't you think?

This stuff about "looks like a vagrant" might as well be "looks like a terrorist"..

The standard is supposed to be "reasonable suspicion" to inquire of identity and he gave his identity. And, presumably reasonable suspicion" of having committed a crime or about to commit a crime. Did it look like he was carrying burglary tools or a weapon?

Not "we got a call" and you don't have ID, so....

There is no law that you need to carry identification papers to walk down the street.

Honestly I would have better understood a search and frisk in this situation than taking him in the police car.

By the way, when I was younger I didn't listen to Elvis Presley or Frank Sinatra but I had heard of them at least.

Well, anyway, its Long Branch....so be it I guess...

Tom

[emshighway]

He wasn't under arrest, they just gave him a ride to ID him. You can actually ride in a Police car and not be under arrest. Have your listen to him speak? Yeeeeeeeeeeee



Well the Supreme Court will be deciding this:
http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_c ... r.resp.pdf

[Tom_Turner]

EMS.. I know you can ride in a police car and not be under arrest :D but you know as well as I do, the fun starts when you refuse the ride in the police car...

Yes, the Supreme Court will seemingly be deciding...unless we get some kind of curve ball, but they will be deciding on "reasonable" suspicion once again, which will in the case of our better officers constitute something greater than "I/we got a call".

But we have to do a little better than this guy is suspicious it doesn't look like he combed his hair and now he mumbles a little bit.... if Dylan was so incoherent how did they get back to where he had been?

If the law and thinking were so inflexible, we wouldn't have every 2nd cousin and bimbo of every police officer on the forces of the Tri-State area carrying a get out of jail free card on them...

Now there's always my favorite case of the security guard in the Bronx noticing the bulge in the jacket of the "youth" walking into the school - he correctly surmises it might be a gun, and he stops the kid and it turns out he is right. It IS a gun! To me that was "reasonable suspicion". But, mind numbingly, the guard is determined by the authorities to have violated the kids' civil rights... Unfortunately, the ACLU has chosen to drift into more of a criminals lobby in recent times, rather than a genuine protector of our civil rights.

Tom
A fan of Law and Order and Civil Rights

[Tom_Turner]

[quote="emshighway"]Have your listen to him speak? Yeeeeeeeeeeee

People actually pay to hear him though...

I've listened to him...he mumbles.. I've also listened to Sara Palin (she sounded "manic" at her resignation speech don't you think?), and Dubya speak.

Its not pretty either...and granted they won't be found wandering the streets without an entourage, but I'd give them a fair hearing if it was me listening..and the point is, there are people - citizens - that sound as wacky as they do.... its not a crime..

There's no law against mumbling... If they really thought he was drunk (and THEN, NO ID, and after all, they were "called", I could begin to understand it better)

Tom

[PhilDernerJr]

We are NOT Required to walk around with ID.

I actually always thought that it was. Even if not, it's stupid for people to walk around without it.

[quote="NIKV69"]You make it sound like LO just tases people for the sake of doing it Phil? From the story Dylan was very cooperative and complied with the officers so I doubt the taser would have ever been a consideration.[quote]

No, I'm agreeing with you, that the police acted as they should.

[moose135]

Well the Supreme Court will be deciding this:
http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_c ... r.resp.pdf

Actually, they decided that case in 2004, but it doesn't look like it applies in NJ. What the Court ruled in that case was that a Nevada law requiring a person to identify himself when questioned by police under "suspicious circumstances" was constitutional. What they found was such "stop and identify" laws, when properly defined, are permitted. They did not rule that people must always identify themselves in such circumstances. NJ doesn't have a "stop and identify" statute, although NY does.

The NY law, in part reads:

...a police officer may stop a person in a public place...when he reasonably suspects that such person is committing,
has committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor defined in the penal law, and may demand of him
his name, address and an explanation of his conduct.

Which is why, when you are out spotting and a police officer stops to check what you are doing, it's probably a good idea, at least in NY, to identify yourself when asked.

[Tom_Turner]

Its definitely a good idea to not piss off a police officer but according to the law there would not be a cause to "reasonably suspect" one of us is committing, has committed or is about to commit either a felony or a misdemeanor in the penal law when we take a picture of an airplane - especially in a known spot where the officer has seen everyone before - millions of images down the line... etc...

Based on facts it would be far more "reasonable" to just apply some "profiling"...than harass spotters.

What the law does *not* say is when the police "get a call", funny looking citizen (in New York I suppose you can't ask if someone is a citizen now or not) or celebrity that is not on officer's Ipod, doing nothing wrong, is required to have ID or be taken from location. That's just stuff that is entirely made up for whatever reason the case may be... keep undesirables out of nice(r) neighborhoods, officer is having a bad day, prevent more annoying "calls" etc...

Tom

[Big Tim #70]

If I owned a house in Long Branch & Called the police because I didn't like a stranger walking around the neighborhood checking out the houses, I would be very happy that they removed him.

I think the police handled this perfectly and did exactly what the citizens of that community who are the taxpayers wanted them to do.

[emshighway]

NJ Cop Takes in Dylan Thinking He's "From One of Our Hospitals"

The man who once penned the song "Hurricane," now might inspire someone to write their own tune about his unjust imprisonment after a run-in with Jersey law enforcement. Folk/rock legend Bob Dylan was taken in by a NJ patrolwoman in Long Branch a few weeks ago when locals became suspicious when they spotted the 68-year-old wandering around in their neighborhood.

The incident took place on July 23rd, but word of it broke on the anniversary of Dylan's historic performance at Woodstock*. While in Jersey a few weeks back, Dylan had strayed quite a bit from the hotel he was staying at while on tour with Willie Nelson and John Mellencamp, in town to play at a minor league ballpark in nearby Lakewood. The singer was looking at a "For Sale" sign on a front lawn while hanging out in the pouring rain when a neighbor called police to alert them to "a weirdo hanging around her house."

Onto the scene came 24-year-old Patrolwoman Kristie Buble, who simply did not believe Dylan when he told her who he was. The officer told ABC News:


He was wearing black sweatpants tucked into black rain boots, and two raincoats with the hood pulled down over his head. We see a lot of people on our beat, and I wasn't sure if he came from one of our hospitals or something. He was acting very suspicious. Not delusional, but suspicious. He asked me if I could drive him back to the neighborhood once I verified who he was...I've seen pictures of Bob Dylan from a long time ago and he didn't look like Bob Dylan to me at all. It never crossed my mind that this could really be him...I said to him, 'OK Bob, why don't you get in the car and we'll drive to the hotel to verify this?' I pulled into the parking lot and sure enough, there were these enormous tour buses, and I thought, 'Whoa.'

At some point during the incident, an older sergeant joined in the proceedings and also failed to recognize Dylan. As for the young Buble, a fellow officer described her "like a 16-year-old kid next to this living legend." And one Long Branch local added, "I don't think she was familiar with his entire body of work." Buble noted that the star was "really nice" and understood why she had to keep him throughout the mix-up, perhaps hoping this was his shot at a free White House beer. When asked if she had a chance to ask for an autograph once she realized her gaffe, she says that Dylan's manager quickly cut off contact between the two, as she bid farewell by saying, "Um, have a nice day."