Till this day I don't understand why they don't design a blackbox attached to a floating device with an ejecting capability (built close to a fuselage panel). Upon water impact (liquid sensor), the box would get detached from the panel, and ejected to float up to the surface... Attach it/paint it to something that can be seen from a distance and it can be spotted and retrieved easily.
...Doesn't sound like rocket science to me. :?
commercial aircraft have VHF radios, which do have a limited range. i'm not sure on how the whole ACARS system works but i know it doesn't suffer the same range issues as VHF radios do.Originally Posted by bluejuice
it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.
That sounds like a solution in search of a problem. People are focusing on this because this crash is in the news, but in the grand scheme of things, how many times has this been an issue? Going back over the last 25 or so years you have the KAL 007 shootdown, the Air India 182 bombing, the SAA Helderberg crash, TWA 800, Swissair 111, EgyptAir 990, and probably a few more that I've missed. The point being, even if it's a dozen crashes in that time, it's against how many millions of airline flights that were conducted over the past 25 years. Compare that to the cost to re-design and retrofit a different set of CVR and FDR boxes to the civilian airliner fleet, and I don't see where there is much to gain. Remember, the boxes are designed to withstand a crash and fire, and are typically housed in a secure location near the tail. Having them near the outer skin of the airliner may not provide sufficient protection in all crash scenarios.
ACARS uses VHF for primary transmission of data (that's how so many people can have an ACARS monitoring set up at home) but when out of range of VHF, it can also use HF or SatCom to transmit data. You don't really need ACARS for voice communications - aircraft such as this one are equipped with HF radios, and may even have voice SatCom. The situation here likely wasn't that the crew had no way of contacting controllers, it was was probably a case of no time for communications. If they had several minutes, they could have attempted an HF call.commercial aircraft have VHF radios, which do have a limited range. i'm not sure on how the whole ACARS system works but i know it doesn't suffer the same range issues as VHF radios do.
KC-135 - Passing gas & taking names!
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Also keep in midn that the CVR is not only used for crashes. They will use that data to research other incidents and issues that pertain to aircraft control and cockpit conversation.
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Chilling details emerge...string of messages indicating multiple systems failures echo those transmitted by Shuttle Columbia as it disintegrated...
Furthermore, a number of ships have finally made it to the recovery area, only to be hampered by rough seas.If they can't be recovered, investigators will have to focus on maintenance records and a burst of messages sent by the plane just before it disappeared. Officials have released some details of these messages, but a more complete chronology was published Wednesday by Brazil's O Estado de S. Paulo newspaper, citing an unidentified Air France source.
Air France and Brazilian military officials refused to confirm the report. But if accurate, it suggests that Flight 447 may have broken up thousands of feet in the air as it passed through a violent storm, experts told The Associated Press.
The report said the pilot sent a manual signal at 11 p.m. local time saying he was flying through an area of "CBs"—black, electrically charged cumulo-nimbus clouds that come with violent winds and lightning. Satellite data has shown that towering thunderheads were sending 100 mph (160 kph) updrafts into the jet's flight path at that time.
Ten minutes later, the plane sent a burst of automatic messages, indicating the autopilot had disengaged, the "fly-by-wire" computer system had been switched to alternative power, and controls needed to keep the plane stable had been damaged. An alarm also sounded, indicating the deterioration of flight systems, according to the report.
Three minutes after that, more automatic messages indicated the failure of two other fundamental systems pilots use to monitor air speed, altitude and direction. Then, a cascade of other electrical failures in systems that control the main flight computer and wing spoilers.
The report repeats a detail previously released by Brazil's Air Force: that the last message came at 11:14 p.m., indicating loss of air pressure and electrical failure. The newspaper said this could mean sudden de-pressurization, or that the plane was already plunging into the ocean.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1
Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9
Popular Mechanics:
Diving Robots Could Recover Air France 447's Black Box
By Mark Huber
Published on: June 4, 2009
After officials pinpointed the location of Air France's Airbus A330 crash site, they turned to the difficult task of recovering the black boxes, which hold the official recordings of events that happened before the plane went down. Black boxes, which are actually painted orange, can give investigators the missing bits and pieces of data needed to determine an accident's probable cause. To help officials find the boxes, embedded technology sends sonarlike signals, which can be detected for up to 30 days provided listening equipment can get within approximately 1 mile of the box, according to a spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board. In the case of Flight 447, the crash area in the Atlantic Ocean is too deep for divers to reach.
In instances such as this, where the site is not accessible, side-scan sonar can be used to locate the boxes underwater and map the wreckage to guide remotely operated deep-sea vehicles (ROV) for recovery. The Brazilian navy, now on the scene, does not possess the equipment necessary to take on recovery, but sonar and robots are available through several other governments, oil companies, independent service contractors, and nongovernmental organizations, according to Al Bradley at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute in Massachusetts. On Sunday, Woods Holes' latest ROV, the $8 million Nereus, dove down 35,768 feet at the deepest surveyed point in the oceans, Challenger Deep in the Pacific's Mariana Trench. With this dive, the ROV became the world's deepest-diving robot. The highly maneuverable Nereus can be controlled by a fiberoptic connection or can swim autonomously when switched to a "free swimming" mode. [Full Article]
Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9
I guess someone in Congress had the same idea...
BusinessWeek:
From an interesting article about technology that already exists that would make these difficult black box searches obsolete, or at least less crucial...if only the airlines would pay for them...To date, attempts to get beyond reliance on a single black box have gone nowhere. One example: U.S. legislation that would have required a second cockpit voice recorder, flight data recorder, and emergency beacon on commercial airliners that would automatically get jettisoned from an aircraft in trouble. Such a requirement was referred to a congressional aviation subcommittee on infrastructure and transportation in 2005. The requirement never went farther.
:arrow: Beyond the Black Box: Accidents Needn't be so Mysterious
Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9
^^ Interesting read :)
The landing of US1549 in the Hudson was great and all, but now it seems that people are unrealistically holding on to hope when there's a water crash. This is the third time I've read something like "What is clear is that there was no landing. There's no chance the escape slides came out." Really? Gee, all signs pointed to these guys arriving on Gilligan's Island after a successful water landing.
Also, the FoxNews headline reads "Was It Pilot Error? Reports emerge that Air France jet that went down in Atlantic may have been flying too slowly." Even if the plane was going slow...that doesn't mean it was pilot error. In heavy turbulence, you slow down the plane so you don't "hit the bumps" as hard. A heavy nosewind in a heavy storm and even then I doubt you'd be that close to stall speed at cruise.
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Air Comet pilot nearby said the following: "Suddenly, we saw in the distance a strong and intense flash of white light, which followed a descending and vertical trajectory and which broke up in six seconds," the captain wrote.
This would indicate a bomb a little bit more I guess.
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Phil is this an "eyewitness" report? Sounds like a burst of lightning. If this was a bomb a terrorist group would have come forward by now. They don't destory things without letting the world know..otherwise it defeats their purpose of putting real fear into the minds of the public.
I'd give a pilot a little more credit on being able to determine explosion versus lightning. You may well be right, but I can't think up an explanantion for an in-flight explosion, if it was in fact one.
I'm curious to hear more people's ideas as to what may have possibly caused this. Anyone?
Email me anytime at [email protected].
interesting pictures..
http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... e0=&swap=1
http://74.125.159.132/translate_c?hl=da ... incPkksrxA
IMO it was either lightning or turbulence. what happenned to flt 447 had to happen suddenly and catastrophically and for electrical systems to fail that means that either a generator shorted out or was altogether lost. could turbulence or lightning take out an engine? maybe, if the turbulence is severe enough. lightning could have hit an engine itself too.
it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.
Very interesting...reminds me of an incident off the coast of Long Island back in the 90's.
[url="http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fekstrabladet.dk%2Fnyheder%2Fkrigo gkatastrofer%2Farticle1176619.ece&sl=da&tl=en&hist ory_state0=&swap=1
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