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Thread: Firestone 9/22/08

  1. #16
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    The entitlement comes from the fact that you feel as long we are not doing anything wrong we can camp out and shoot all afternoon.
    Not what I said and not what I think. I think that we can preserve the spot with a positive outcome if we behave properly. HOPEFULLY, if we do nothing wrong, we won't get kicked out by the property owners. However, if they ask us to leave, I know we don't have a RIGHT to be there, and would leave without protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    Yes I read your post Phil, your basically saying as long as we are not doing anything wrong we can shoot there.
    No, I am saying that I have no problem shooting there, being a patron of the stores and behaving properly in hopes that they will let us stay. We've been lucky thus far.

    Did you read my post? I specifically said it was private property. We all know it's private proeprty, and we know that we've been enjoying a PRIVILEDGE of being there. No one, including myself, implied otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    NCPD is quite accomadating but if we continue to have episodes like yesterday and refuse to limit our big groups conregrating there we risk losing the location.
    What "episode"? We were stopped like we usually are, and with the exception of maybe slight attitude from one officer, everything turned out well. I hope for more encouters like that!

    And how do you suggest limiting the size of the groups?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    People have shot in the cargo area for years with no problem.
    Nothing could be more false. When I first got into the hobby, air India cargo was barely a "suicide spot", because people would have Port Police surrounding them with multiple cars within minutes. Nearly every time with rare exception. Only over the past few years did it start to become a little more accommodating, but it was still a sensitive location.

    I personally do not blame Matt and Gordon, because I just think that something that like that bound to happen. This is because, like I said, this is a much more private lot than a store parking lot is. There's a huge difference there, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    Actually from where I sat I saw that these officers have patience with us but if we push our luck and make what happened yesterday the rule and not the exception we risk having what happened at cargo plaza happen at Firestone. ....Remember what you do effects us all. Think about that a little more. It will do us all a bit of good.
    How did we push our luck? Just by being out in a sizable group? I still don't understand what you're accusing the spotters of doing wrong at Firestone.

    Although, I heard that there was one spotter at Firestone who asked "What are you folks doing?" who responded with "Taking pictures of airplanes. You have a problem?"

    That was the first and only misstep of judgement that I know of at Firestone ever. That and Tommy wearing that ugly hat.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Gerard's Avatar
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    >That was the first and only misstep of judgement that I know of at Firestone ever. That and Tommy wearing that ugly hat.[/quote]<

    Someone said you guys have lawn chairs set up also? That is a serious indicator of possible terrorist activity. :lol:

  3. #18
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    Although, I heard that there was one spotter at Firestone who asked "What are you folks doing?" who responded with "Taking pictures of airplanes. You have a problem?"
    That person is well known as a "clown" and people like that give us a big black eye. But with certain folks, I'm surprised comments like that aren't spat out more often.

    Nick, not everything is a conspiracy. Not everyone is out to get us. Perhaps taking off the foil hat, using less starch in your dockers and some really clear thinking is in order. Or if you really want to reduce the group size, even when a larger group was out the previous day with no bother at all, maybe you can find a new locale to shoot from. I think the majority of us will stay together. Spotting ain't all about JUST getting the shot. I've made some great friends spotting in large groups and I almost hate going it alone now.

    The bottom line is the guy was just covering his ass and doing his job. That is all. I have comments about the "gung ho" mos, but I'll just keep them to myself.
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  4. #19
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Just adding this in, the Air India Lot was blocked off because the building that it used to serve purpose for has been cleared out. The Air India Parking just moved to the lot next to their cargo ops.
    "lol retart"

  5. #20
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    That was the first and only misstep of judgement that I know of at Firestone ever. That and Tommy wearing that ugly hat.
    My hat rocks thank you very much! :D :D

  6. #21
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    When I was at Firestone Saturday and Sunday, I noticed a "cop shop" (police station) outside the mall.

    Is this manned, or is it just a phone link to the local precinct?

    Maybe we could get an agreement similar to what the guys down in DC have, and call and let them know we are going to be there and what we are doing. That way it stops all the hassle, as when people call in and report us, the dispatcher can just say "Thanks for the call, we aware of these people and what they are doing"

    It seems to work with the MWAA, why not try and get something set up with NCPD?

  7. #22
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Quote Originally Posted by markg
    When I was at Firestone Saturday and Sunday, I noticed a "cop shop" (police station) outside the mall.

    Is this manned, or is it just a phone link to the local precinct?

    Maybe we could get an agreement similar to what the guys down in DC have, and call and let them know we are going to be there and what we are doing. That way it stops all the hassle, as when people call in and report us, the dispatcher can just say "Thanks for the call, we aware of these people and what they are doing"

    It seems to work with the MWAA, why not try and get something set up with NCPD?
    Impossible and logistically unrealistic. NCPD is much larger operation then MWAA, which is an airport authority with a smaller footprint then NCPD. Think about it...our call would have to be communicated to an entire dispatch call center and to the station house. The logistics, time and money so we don't get bothered is a waste of taxpayer resources.

    I'm not bothered one bit by the police coming up asking questions. Most of them are respectful and aware of what we are doing. As long as youíre not running around the parking lot like a fool, trespassing like the links I posted above then itís really a non issue. If some don't like spotting in groups then find another place to shoot from.

  8. #23
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Quote Originally Posted by markg
    When I was at Firestone Saturday and Sunday, I noticed a "cop shop" (police station) outside the mall.

    Is this manned, or is it just a phone link to the local precinct?
    NCPD refers to them as "Booths" - there are a number of them in each precinct. They are not manned full time, but serve as a "substation" for officers on patrol. It's a place to make phone calls, do paper work, use the rest room, etc.

  9. #24
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    I think that being in a group actually improves public perception of spotting. Instead of a few people trying to "sneak around", acting suspicious, there is a group of people out having a good time. Remember, the times where you look the most suspicious are when you act like you have something to hide.....

    About the Air India lot:

    1. It was closed because that building is no longer occupied, not because we spotted there
    2. In all the times we were there, no one ever said anything.
    3. We had police officers drive by and WAVE at us while we were spotting there
    4. There were other people (non-spotters) there who were watching the aircraft and doing the same thing, including a police officer walking his K-9 dog.
    5. We spotted that area after they closed the lot.... Again, police officers drove by, smiled and waved.

    I think it is a bit naive to blame a parking lot closing on 3 teenage kids who didn't even get a suspicious look from anybody, especially without knowing the full situation.
    nwa FOREVER!

  10. #25
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Quote Originally Posted by nwafan20
    I think that being in a group actually improves public perception of spotting. Instead of a few people trying to "sneak around", acting suspicious, there is a group of people out having a good time. Remember, the times where you look the most suspicious are when you act like you have something to hide.....

    About the Air India lot:

    1. It was closed because that building is no longer occupied, not because we spotted there
    2. In all the times we were there, no one ever said anything.
    3. We had police officers drive by and WAVE at us while we were spotting there
    4. There were other people (non-spotters) there who were watching the aircraft and doing the same thing, including a police officer walking his K-9 dog.
    5. We spotted that area after they closed the lot.... Again, police officers drove by, smiled and waved.

    I think it is a bit naive to blame a parking lot closing on 3 teenage kids who didn't even get a suspicious look from anybody, especially without knowing the full situation.
    Matt no one blamed you, I said you guys were irresponsible...but my contacts in Port saw the pic and asked "do you know them and who are they?" Here's the deal...You, Matt, and Gordan were trespassing on FAA property and simply because no one said anything to you doesn't make it ok.. That's like saying I break the speed limit when I drive but since I don't get pulled over, itís ok.

  11. #26
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Matt no one blamed you,
    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    Actually Tom it has everything to do with entitlement. Gordon and Matt treated that area as their personal spotting location. Not private property. They used absolutely no common sense and thought only about themselves. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, well usually is. When we start to realize that some of these spots are not our personal spotting locations and start to treat them as places where with some common sense we can get some shots and not bring attention to ourselves we will be much better off.
    ...
    "lol retart"

  12. #27
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    [quote=stuart schechter]
    Quote Originally Posted by "T-Bird76":2cvl1m5p
    Matt no one blamed you,
    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    Actually Tom it has everything to do with entitlement. Gordon and Matt treated that area as their personal spotting location. Not private property. They used absolutely no common sense and thought only about themselves. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, well usually is. When we start to realize that some of these spots are not our personal spotting locations and start to treat them as places where with some common sense we can get some shots and not bring attention to ourselves we will be much better off.
    ...[/quote:2cvl1m5p]

    Stuart do you have something to add? Because I'm not smart enough to know what "..." mean? I generally don't agree with Nick on much but in this case he's spot on.

  13. #28
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    I understand that you agreed on what Nick said. I was pointing out that Matt's response in this was because of what Nick said. When you responded to him saying that, "No one blamed you,"... In fact, someone did, that's why that quote was there.
    "lol retart"

  14. #29
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Quote Originally Posted by stuart schechter
    I understand that you agreed on what Nick said. I was pointing out that Matt's response in this was because of what Nick said. When you responded to him saying that, "No one blamed you,"... In fact, someone did, that's why that quote was there.
    Nick never accussed them of being the sole reason why the lot was closed. Yes the pics didn't help and combined with sensitive facilites that are there the lot was closed.

    Here's the deal...! We have plenty of spots to shoot from to enjoy JFK's traffic. There are no reason people and not even those we are discussing have to in some cases break the law to get a picture. Not only do they put themselves at risk but jeopardize the hobby for everyone else and IMO these risk takers photos should not be celebrated.

  15. #30
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Re: Firestone 9/22/08

    Tommy, you never walked on the grass at Air India before?

    What law broken? I don't recall seeing them climbing on the landing lights or anything. Peopel walk their dogs right up to the landing lights all the time as well.

    As I said, it's one of those spots that was bound to develop problems. I'm just happy we did get to shoot there for the time that we did.
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