Southwest's A list is more like the F list (Updated 12/21)

[T-Bird76]

So taking advantage of Southwest's new A list program I was looking forward to their system checking me in automatically and providing me with a choice position in the A group for my trip to Florida tomorrow, after all they're highly touted "A List" program was designed to put their best customers first right? Well I go to reprint my boarding pass this morning and my position is A52.....Are you seriously going to tell me this flight has 52 A list Rapid Reward members on it? Somehow I seriously doubt it.

First impressions are lasting and so far my first impression of WN's new boarding and loyalty programs gets a big fat F! Looks like I will not be flying SWA as much as I used to in the future if this is what I'm to expect of their A list program. I almost have to wonder if they randomly pick line positions when a person is checked in because in this situation it just doesn't seem like it’s in a sequential manner.

[NIKV69]

You may be right, doesn't sound likely that many could have checked in. I think WN is doing themselves wrong with this. Should have left the boarding procedure alone. The little extra money you make in higher fares for the biz select or whatever isn't worth pissing people off. A, B, C. It's as easy as that. You want a good seat get in line.

[eric8669]

I checked in for my flight about 8AM this morning. I got B 31. Based on previous southwest experience I thought I would be a bit higher up.

[Alex T]

Not at All.

A1-24, sometimes up to 30 are automatically pulled for the Business Select People, then they individually pull the other A's based on the A List people flying, and then it works down the list.

So the 2nd A group A31-60, which is what Tommy seems to be in is for the rest of A list and those checking in and then again down the list...

It differs per flight based on the amount of Y and Business Select People, on top of the A List folks.

Did you speak to the Agent and find out what happened on the phone or find out tomorrow at the gate and ask how many A List there actually are on the flight, it very well could be there IS that many! One flight had 32 Business select passengers, so you can imagine everything got pushed down.

As for randomly picking no they do not, the computer simply spits it out in the order people check in, same way they do it for the old A,B and C.

With that said there are 4 seats left remaining for your flight.

Alex

[T-Bird76]

Alex you explanation proves that this system is needlessly complicated and wrong. I tried following what you just typed and I'm lost. Even on AA's busisiest flights you rarely see that many elites. I called WN customer service and their answer was "that's how the system works" and would not say how many A list customers are on the flight. I'm telling you, YOU DO NOT have that many A list RR members flying on a Saturday morning to FLL, not happening my friend. The program is flawed plain and simple. WN should have created a boarding group called "A list," that gets called for boarding before the normal A group.

[Alex T]

Tommy--

A passes are pulled for Business Select AND A List, so with the combination of the two, there COULD be, but not saying it with confidence, I am not work so I do not have access to the flight loads that generate the fare specific people.

It is not permiseable for an employee to enclose how many A List people there are, it is considered private information along with who is flying on the flight and whatnot.

As for the A List thing before the normal A group, that IS what Business Select is, then A List goes after Business Select, and then down the list.

I really am surprised you got that down the list, as for Eric if he is not A List or Business Select I am curious to what time he checked in.

Check your pm then afteewards.

Alex

[T-Bird76]

Alex....my dear...Saturday morning the slowest travel day of the week is not going to have that many biz select fares and A listers flying. I've flown AA on routes like LGA-ORD and DFW on busy travel days and you might have 20 to tops 30 elites flying not over 50.

[Matt Molnar]

Remember that AA Elite requires you to fly A LOT. SW Business Select only requires that you buy a certain ticket.

[NIKV69]

A1-24, sometimes up to 30 are automatically pulled for the Business Select People, then they individually pull the other A's based on the A List people flying, and then it works down the list.

If this is true then Alex is saying 30 or so seats are reserved for Biz select and the rest is the other A list pax that checked in before Tommy? Could make sense.

Alex you explanation proves that this system is needlessly complicated and wrong.

This will happen when you try to have your cake and eat it too. WN is trying to have some sort of system here that rewards a biz pax that pays a little more and RR members without actually having assigned seating. If it doesn't work it is going to be a disaster. Few questions remain. If WN reserves say 25 seats for biz select and they aren't used does the A list people move up?

[Alex T]

Nick Yes-

A1-24 is generally blocked for Business Select, sometimes more is added if more then those Business Select people actually booked more seats.

Then when people check in they get the Number in roder they checked in up to the last number blocked.

So those A List people checked in before Tommy did. and got those A cards.

Nick if NO ONE buys a business select seat, the A1-24 is STILL blocked, but no worries, A25 and beyond would actually get the first pick, because no one from A1-24 took up those seats, makes sense?

Alex

[T-Bird76]

So WN blocks A1-25 for Biz select? The tier levels for WN's loyalty and fare structure is getting really cloudy now as to who WN feels is its best source of revenue. So any Tom, Dick, Harry can buy a biz select fare and WN puts those passengers first? I guess you can compare it to non elite F class pax boarding on the legacy's before and with elites. However Exec, Exec Plat and Airpass members on AA board with F passengers so WN's procedures here sort of still put their best customers second, I just don't agree with that.

Matt as far as your statement that with AA you have to fly allot to become elite, totally false, infact you'll earn AA gold before you earn Rapid Reward A list with WN. WN doesn't use miles they use segments to qualify you for A list. With AA all you need to do is fly 30,000 elite qualifying miles which is the real miles flown and you'll earn Gold status with WN I need 32 segments. That means flying transcon only 6 times a year will give you AA Gold vs. earning me squat with WN.

I know this is WN's first attempt at an upper level of their Rapid Reward program and I'm sure adjustments will be made as people complain (like me :) ). However WN's test market was truly limited with the new boarding procedure and Rapid Reward program and this is why I believe there are so many holes in the program right now. From my point of view as a business traveler just like Art at ISP did with US I’ll end up shifting my business to a carrier that truly respects my loyalty. The thing that I loved about WN was that it was so easy to fly them. Admit it guys look at this thread, Alex is giving a million reasons for this and that, Nick is trying to figure it out along with I and not just here. You can go to Flyertalk and see the same thing. Before all these changes WN was simple....A.B.or C, get on the plane sit down and that's that. Alex you love WN but they really are becoming just like everyone else and that's nothing to be proud of.

Oh and if Chris W is reading this, see I can bitch about other airlines besides Delta :P

[Alex T]

So WN blocks A1-25 for Biz select? The tier levels for WN's loyalty and fare structure is getting really cloudy now as to who WN feels is its best source of revenue. So any Tom, Dick, Harry can buy a biz select fare and WN puts those passengers first? I guess you can compare it to non elite F class pax boarding on the legacy's before and with elites. However Exec, Exec Plat and Airpass members on AA board with F passengers so WN's procedures here sort of still put their best customers second, I just don't agree with that.

Yes that is correct. Because those who paid the MOST for that flight, Business Select boards first. Do figure though, while any tom, dick and harry CAN buy a business select who actually does?! Those average people probably don't have the financial means to book business select every single time, however those business people do. The best customers are those who fly SWA a lot, yes which generally ARE the business select people whom are also on the A List too.

Matt as far as your statement that with AA you have to fly allot to become elite, totally false, infact you'll earn AA gold before you earn Rapid Reward A list with WN. WN doesn't use miles they use segments to qualify you for A list. With AA all you need to do is fly 30,000 elite qualifying miles which is the real miles flown and you'll earn Gold status with WN I need 32 segments. That means flying transcon only 6 times a year will give you AA Gold vs. earning me squat with WN.

That is also true, and I also wonder if connecting flights on SWA count as segment or if is still considered one. Ie, an ISP-MDW-LAS with a change of planes in MDW still counts as one "flight/segment". This I need to find out.

Though, Matt was reffering to BUSINESS SELECT, not the A List. Which IS True, you WILL get better benefits just booking Business Select over flying AA 6 times a year to get Gold for the same Elite Benefits.

Try 7 times hehehe flying AA 6 times r/t only gets you just a hair under 30K, but I get the point, so don't hit me! :D

I know this is WN's first attempt at an upper level of their Rapid Reward program and I'm sure adjustments will be made as people complain (like me :) ). However WN's test market was truly limited with the new boarding procedure and Rapid Reward program and this is why I believe there are so many holes in the program right now.

I understand this as an employee and a customer, and I HAVE urged Tom and many others, don't like it? DO NOT complain to me, and call the airline and make the complaints there. I truly do support complaints, as long as it was tried, and done first, then echo your concerns, statements and such. I don't sit here and defend the airline, I simply state the facts and as is, and if you don't like it then complain or go somewhere else. I certainly don't mean it in a rude way either, there is an airline for everyone as noticed before.

I have only heard complaints from Tom, at work when I non rev I take the time to ask customers how they like and I truly have heard nothing but good feedback, some adjustments may need to be made some may not, again its really a personality thing over whats "right" The only downside I have heard is for people whom are die hard exit row fans, like Tom, who yes with the old boarding system was able to secure an exit row first hand, and now may not be so lucky.

The thing that I loved about WN was that it was so easy to fly them. Admit it guys look at this thread, Alex is giving a million reasons for this and that, Nick is trying to figure it out along with I and not just here. You can go to Flyertalk and see the same thing. Before all these changes WN was simple....A.B.or C, get on the plane sit down and that's that. Alex you love WN but they really are becoming just like everyone else and that's nothing to be proud of.

Thats just it Tom, believe it or not WN's BIGGEST complaint of the boarding system, was no assigned seating and having to stand in line. You clearly are the exception and LOVED the old system. Many of their passengers did NOT and asked for a change, more specifically a way to reward the business people who bought Y fares, and to not have to stand in line anymore "hours in advance"

Yes I love WN, but believe me I HAVE had complaints against the airline as an employee, and customer, as you very well know, and am not THAT quick to defend the airline, and to this day I don't defend them. I reiterate the facts and statements, regardless of anyone who likes it or does not.

Oh and if Chris W is reading this, see I can bitch about other airlines besides Delta :P

...and I get to deal with it as much as you do about DL ;)

Alex

[NIKV69]

a carrier that truly respects my loyalty

If you are looking for that in WN your looking in the wrong place. You know better than anyone what their model is. Keep them full and keep them flying. Best way to do this is to pack them in quick and turn them around. This new boarding procedure is just ripe for failure. Either take care of your frequent flyers or keep the playing field level. IMO any other way is not going to work, I mean what happens if an RR is checked in and doesn't show to board on time? Keep it first come first served. Line em up! Short of going to complete assign seating (Which will never happen) it's the only way.

[Alex T]

I mean what happens if an RR is checked in and doesn't show to board on time? Keep it first come first served. Line em up! Short of going to complete assign seating (Which will never happen) it's the only way.

..and that has to do with what Nick?

WN gives his seat away at the gate, just like any other airline would work and does the same way, by RR, this means Rapid Rewards the PROGRAM, ANYONE can be a Rapid Reward Member at SWA.

Alex

[NIKV69]

OK, well if he shows up during boarding of the group behind his original group? What does WN do? You see you can't have a system that has certain parties line up unless you are going to do it in order of who checked in earlier and who was in line. It's more organized and as we have seen with Tommy ruffles less feathers. IMO WN should not have strayed from their original system. Why sell biz tickets? You are not a biz carrier. Your a cattle car carrier. When you try to mix the two you get what Tommy experienced in this attempt to use the system.