Southwest's A list is more like the F list (Updated 12/21)

[Alex T]

I spoke to some CSA's at WN about Tommy's situation.

No one believed me that an A Lister got A52, they didn't know how to explain how he got A52, it just should NOT have happened.

So I did apologize to tommy on behalf of WN, he should have gotten between A26-A40 which is usually when A Listers get their boarding cards. There was apparantly a fluke in his check in system that had him pushed back.

Under NORMAL circumstances, again not making excuses, stating "how it goes" is A1-25 is pulled automatically for business select people REGARDLESS if any were actually booked, not rows, as Nick said.

A listers are next, reason is being Business Select people paid the most for that flight, so they were treated first before anyone else. If anyone disagrees with it then ok, but again stating how it is.

As for people complaining at WN, passenger wise, I have told him and will repeat it from MY stance from workign and traveling I haven't heard the complaining tommy has heard, certainly not stating he is a liar, again your not going to make everyone happy. But these passengers should have better educated themselves on the procedure before going to the airport, just like checking the security rules and such.

I will state Tommy was still able to get his exit rows both ways :twisted:

Alex

[NIKV69]

they didn't know how to explain how he got A52, it just should NOT have happened.There was apparantly a fluke in his check in system that had him pushed back.

Hmmm, maybe gremlins got into the system?

Under NORMAL circumstances, again not making excuses, stating "how it goes" is A1-25 is pulled automatically for business select people REGARDLESS if any were actually booked, not rows, as Nick said.

A listers are next, reason is being Business Select people paid the most for that flight, so they were treated first before anyone else. If anyone disagrees with it then ok, but again stating how it is.

I still think this is a chinese fire drill. WN doesn't want to assign seats. So now they save a special boarding group based on a new higher fare. Then an A-list group. BUT if the biz select doesn't fill it's not like another airline where tommy can go up to a CSA and re check in and get the better boarding. See like I said WN is trying to have their cake and eat it. I can't see it working.

As for people complaining at WN, passenger wise, I have told him and will repeat it from MY stance from workign and traveling I haven't heard the complaining tommy has heard

I think your pax will speak louder by flying other carriers. Which you may see in the future. I mean just by what I have heard if I can get a fare close to WN on another carrier from LAS-LAX this winter I am taking it. I would rather be able to pick my seat than play russian roulette.

[PhilDernerJr]

I am very disappointed to learn how this is going. When I first heard about what would be their new process, I didn't understand it, and I just assumed that it was much easier and simple than they first explained.

Now that I hear how complicated it actually is, I am just in shock. This is a decision that was obviously made among powerful people within the company, and for it to come from an airline that has been to smart and successful for so long, it shocking.

If they felt the existing procedure was not good enough, why overcomplicate it? I thought their not using seat assignments was so that it would be easier for everyone.

[Alex T]

I still think this is a chinese fire drill. WN doesn't want to assign seats. So now they save a special boarding group based on a new higher fare. Then an A-list group. BUT if the biz select doesn't fill it's not like another airline where tommy can go up to a CSA and re check in and get the better boarding. See like I said WN is trying to have their cake and eat it. I can't see it working.

Nick, you really are not understanding it then if you keep repeating the "re check in". The seats, because they are not assigned, are NOT BLOCKED. Only the BOARDING PASS POSITION. IF, there are NO Business Select passengers on board they will immediatly board from A26 and beyond, so think of it this way, if no business select passengers are on board, Tommy just got bumped UP 25 slots/spots/position however you want to call it.

Tom mentioned to me he had NO business select passengers on his flight ISP-FLL, so they started to board at A26 (or whatever the position number, again it differs from flight to flight).

I think your pax will speak louder by flying other carriers. Which you may see in the future. I mean just by what I have heard if I can get a fare close to WN on another carrier from LAS-LAX this winter I am taking it. I would rather be able to pick my seat than play russian roulette.

I agree, nothing is louder then seeing your passenger go to another Airline. Even I have followed this myself I have never flown WN just because I liked them, I ALWAYS ALWAYS went for the cheapest, and I encourage others book the cheapest, unless you have a favorite airline, ie Nick your's is continental, perhaps Phil's is ATA etc etc. Mine, I always book on American Airlines. Usually flying out of STL, SWA and AA matched each other so I simply checked times, and aircrafts, most of AA's was on the ERJ, which IMO I'd prefer a 737 with WN over an ERJ with AA/Connection. Again its all on preferences, you'd be fooled to think I booked WN just because I liked them, money talks for me too.

Now that I hear how complicated it actually is, I am just in shock. This is a decision that was obviously made among powerful people within the company, and for it to come from an airline that has been to smart and successful for so long, it shocking.

What is complicated about it? A regular passenger, buys a ticket online, check in at 24hrs in advance, go to the airport get their bags and all checked, then check their boarding group and number. When the ops agent calls your boarding group and number, you go up to the line, stand in it according to your number and then you board the aircraft.

If they felt the existing procedure was not good enough, why overcomplicate it? I thought their not using seat assignments was so that it would be easier for everyone.

Because the passengers were asking for a change, the airline tested in different airports, and did surveys and votes, based on what the passengers wanted. The passengers voted for NOT standing in line for awhile, and they did not care to have assigned seating.

No, I do agree not EVERYONE PASSENGER voted for this new procedure, but the majority of the passengers by far voted for this.

Once again folks, I truly am not so much biased, I just keep reminding the facts and reinstating things. I have my own issues with WN right now :twisted:

Alex

[NIKV69]

IF, there are NO Business Select passengers on board they will immediatly board from A26 and beyond, so think of it this way, if no business select passengers are on board, Tommy just got bumped UP 25 slots/spots/position however you want to call it.

See this is why this system is doomed to failure. If you are going to create a new class of pax (Which I think is foolish) with this biz select why not let them board before anybody period? If they paid more let them board first but don't hold any rows or anything. Make sense? You would have to have 4 boarding classes instead of three and board in order of Biz select, A, B and C. See problem with this is you would have to retrofit all your temimals and this would cost a ton. As would just having assigned seats would too. Let's face it WN is trying to have their cake and eat it. Trying to now cater to a pax that has paid more and giving him an assigned seat without actually having assigned seating. As Phil said, the way you sell tix dictated the way you boarded and that is why it worked. Only real fair way to do it until you created a new class of pax.

[T-Bird76]

So now the press is on WN's new boarding system...and man I could have wrote this article word for word...

Southwest Moves About The Country But The Terminal? Forget It
By Jane WellsCorrespondent
cnbc.com
| 20 Dec 2007 | 05:44 PM ET
I fly Southwest a lot. I like it. Very low expectations, just cheap, reliable service. But they have a new boarding system which is supposed to be an improvement over the one that's worked fine for decades.

Southwest does not assign seats. Instead, when you check in you get a boarding pass stamped A, B, or C. The A's board first, then the B's, then the C's. And each letter has its own line to stand in.

Now, though, the lettered lines are gone, replaced by numerical signs spaced every five feet along the boarding area. When you check in, you still get a letter, but also a number. So if you have A-26, you're supposed to line up below a numerical marker saying 26-30 when they call for the "A's."

Can I tell you how confused people are? It's worse than going metric overnight. The customer service rep has to spend ten minutes explaining where people need to stand, and people are still puzzled. It doesn't seem to speed boarding either.


I suspect we'll be hearing the ten-minute explanation for the next ten years and people STILL won't get it (do you know there are people who still show up at the airport and don't know they have to have liquids in small containers in a plastic bag?)

I sure hope someone didn't earn their Six Sigma Black Belt on this one.

The airline's slogan has been "You are free to move about the country." Moving about the terminal is another matter.

Comments? Funny Stories? Email [email protected]

© 2007 CNBC, Inc. All Rights Reserved
URL: http://www.cnbc.com/id/22348299/?__sour ... &par=yahoo


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[NIKV69]

LOLOL, priceless. I think this will only get worse as WN has made a huge gaff here. I think we will hear more about how this new boarding procedure is chaos. Would love to see how they fix this. Note to WN if you are not going to assign seats (which they won't) go back to your old system and give biz select pax preboard status before the A group.

[lijk604]

Nick,
I think you hit it right on the head.
If they insist on Biz-select, just chage your boarding areas to A / B / C / D where A = Biz-Select.
End of confusion.

[tipek]

I love this topic. I spent last 30 minutes readying Tommys complain about his usetobe-favorite airline, Alex deffending his beloved employer and Nick taking Tommys side. This reading is hilarious :)
Now I want to add few cents to the subject.
- When you book ticket on real airline, you are able to select your seat during the booking process. You don't have to stay up all night waiting for time to check in with WN.
- I can't imagine taking flights with WN over 1hr long. You call that leather seats?
On my both WN flights I had a seat with "leather" sticking up in the shape of triangle. I don't know if WN passengers are sucking up leather with their asses. Both flights felt like I was flying on a wooden seat.
- After flying only 25K miles with US Airways in the first part of 2007 I'm getting complimentary upgrades to first class on almost every single flight. In the worst case, US Airways is putting me in the emergency exit row or bulkhead seats for being loyal customer (I've flown 66K miles with US this year)
- Do you remember two seasons of "Airline" on A&E channel? The only people that I saw there were eather drunks or first time flyers. Don't remember business people there.

Enjoy your holiday. :)

Rafal

[NIKV69]

When you book ticket on real airline, you are able to select your seat during the booking process. You don't have to stay up all night waiting for time to check in with WN.

Oh ****..Hope Alex isn't around.

Do you remember two seasons of "Airline" on A&E channel? The only people that I saw there were eather drunks or first time flyers. Don't remember business people there.

LOLOL, yea well WN does appeal to the trailor trash but there are some business folk. The point I was trying to make was WN was trying to be something their not. Sure they fly some business people but they built their model on shoving them into the plane without assigned seats. It does them good. In fact I like it. First come first served (Or first checked in) is simple and it works. Why they wanted to try this is beyond me. I can't believe Alex when he said pax were asking for a change. I flew WN for 6 flights last year and the only problems I saw was letting every kid preboard. When they only needed to let the real young ones preboard. Beside that it worked fine. I still say they will have to go back as this chaos they have created can't be good.

After flying only 25K miles with US Airways in the first part of 2007 I'm getting complimentary upgrades to first class on almost every single flight. In the worst case, US Airways is putting me in the emergency exit row or bulkhead seats for being loyal customer (I've flown 66K miles with US this year)

Can't compare the two. WN can't do these things. No first class, no assigned seats and they are just not that type of carrier.

[Alex T]

- When you book ticket on real airline, you are able to select your seat during the booking process. You don't have to stay up all night waiting for time to check in with WN.

Who the heck stays up all night to check in on WN? That was like 4 years ago, now its 24 hrs in advance.

Book on a real airline...ok that doesn't charge you for food in coach? Drinks and peanuts on every single flight, minimum, a real airline that has one of the worlds safest records in history, a real airline that is the worlds largest airline domestically and intl, a real airline that usually gets you to your destination on time without pissing off their customers (read that US Airways?).....

- I can't imagine taking flights with WN over 1hr long. You call that leather seats? On my both WN flights I had a seat with "leather" sticking up in the shape of triangle. I don't know if WN passengers are sucking up leather with their asses. Both flights felt like I was flying on a wooden seat.

Yes, they are leather seats, same leather AA uses in F/C, same leather DL uses, it is LEATHER. Only time i can even IMAGINE a wooden seat feeling like your describing is if it was factory delivered fresh, where the seat hasn't been "used" and "sunk in" yet. Otherwise, complete BS.

- Do you remember two seasons of "Airline" on A&E channel? The only people that I saw there were eather drunks or first time flyers. Don't remember business people there.

Memory must be pretty bad, I saw a lot of business folks as well. Also think about this, do you want to watch a show about passengers behaving, actually KNOWING what they are supposed to do, and not see drama, and such like that on TV. That was the main target of the show, every airline would, and still to this day has the drunk people and first time flyers among other type of passengers.

Enjoy your holiday.

You too! Enjoy!

Oh ****..Hope Alex isn't around.

He's around.

Why they wanted to try this is beyond me. I can't believe Alex when he said pax were asking for a change.

Well believe it instead of calling me a Liar. Fact is..Majority of passengers tested this, and liked it and asked WN to change it. Don't believe me, PLEASE Call Colleen and ask yourself, Tommy has her number, I am sure he'd be happy to give it to you. SWA is known for doing what its customers like, generally, passengers complained about standing in line, The airline listened, and responded the best way the passengers voted. Why it is so hard to believe is beyond me. This does NOT mean EVERYONE will like it, but most do.

Alex

[nwafan20]

I absolutely HATE the new boarding procedure, and I think it is such a stupid move, but I have to give Alex a little back up here.

The WN leather seats I sat in (4 in total, 2 each way) were probably some of the most comfortable seats that I have sat in, 10x better than the new AirTran slimline (I hated those with a passion, THEY felt like you were sitting on wood).

I enjoyed my experience on WN before they changed the boarding system. All I can hope is that they change it back, they were a fine airline before, but this new thing is ridiculous.

[tipek]

Dude, you don't have to be all upset because I don't like to fly WN. What I'm saying are the facts that I've experienced while flying with WN. Don't worry, WN is not on my ****list yet. The only airline that have this pleasure is American Airlines/American Eagle.
Back to the topic:

- Book on a real airline...ok that doesn't charge you for food in coach? Drinks and peanuts on every single flight, minimum, a real airline that has one of the worlds safest records in history, a real airline that is the worlds largest airline domestically and intl, a real airline that usually gets you to your destination on time without pissing off their customers (read that US Airways?)......

On all of my US flights I've received drinks and pretzels or peanuts, even on CLT-GSP flight which was 12 minutes in the air.
I don't get your statement about being largest airline domestically and intl? I got the domestic part, but what about Intl. Care to explain?
Well, since you started talking about getting to your destination on time withouth pissing off their customers...
Here are my flights with WN. And now I can tell you that 50% of my flights were delayed :)
B737-700 Southwest BWI BUF WN2886 N414WN 4/8/2006
B737-300 Southwest BUF BWI WN230 N349SW 4/9/2006
Flight WN230 was delayed over 3hrs because aircraft had MX at ORF and was late coming in to BWI and then very late coming in to BUF to pick up pax on its last leg/.

- Yes, they are leather seats, same leather AA uses in F/C, same leather DL uses, it is LEATHER. Only time i can even IMAGINE a wooden seat feeling like your describing is if it was factory delivered fresh, where the seat hasn't been "used" and "sunk in" yet. Otherwise, complete BS.

The wooden feeling was on both of my flights -300 and -700 series aircraft. On the way to BUF I had emergency exit row/window seat but I couldn't seat still. I'm not making jokes right now, person before me had to suck up leather with her/his ass. It was very uncomfortable flight. On the way back, I didn't have emergency exit row, but the seat was also with leather sticking up. I think -700 had new seats and -300 seats were worn out.

No, airlines are not using the same leather. Delta's leather seats are 'puffy', US seats are 'packed' just like B6 seats. The best First class seats were on America West A320s. They were just perfect. (Talking about USA domestic market since WN is not an international airline so I can't compare apples to oranges).

- Memory must be pretty bad, I saw a lot of business folks as well. Also think about this, do you want to watch a show about passengers behaving, actually KNOWING what they are supposed to do, and not see drama, and such like that on TV. That was the main target of the show, every airline would, and still to this day has the drunk people and first time flyers among other type of passengers.

Actually I have first season on DVD at home and I like to watch it. Nothing funnier than drunk people fighting with CSAs :)


Alex, since you started working with WN we can't say anything bad about Southwest because you will always find explanation to the problem. Thats fine, but remember that people are different and have different views on life.
Look at Tommy. All these years he was bragging about WN whenever he could. Now WN have changed little policy and Tommy is pissed :)
Love it! LOL

Rafal :)

[NIKV69]

This does NOT mean EVERYONE will like it, but most do.

Funny but so far in our discussion WN is batting a big fat 0. I still say give it s few weeks and we will see a change. It's turning into a debacle.

This does NOT mean EVERYONE will like it, but most do.

Some of those episodes are funny. You have to remember some of those people were first time flyers that had no idea that WN had no codeshare, basically no anything. So when it goes bad your screwed. Unless your a biz select pax. :borat:


I can't say bad things about the seats. For what they are they are comfortable to me. Again your flying bargain basement. You have to keep that in consideration.

[Alex T]

I don't get your statement about being largest airline domestically and intl? I got the domestic part, but what about Intl. Care to explain?

Southwest Airlines is on set to become the worlds largest airline (in terms of passengers boarded), including International, which yes I know WN doesn't even fly Intl routes, this is due to being SWA flies more passengers then the current largest airline in the world, American Airlines.

Here is a link stating this and why this may happen.

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/flights ... rlines.asp

Alex, since you started working with WN we can't say anything bad about Southwest because you will always find explanation to the problem.

I don't work for SWA anymore. However, I understand people not liking SWA, but 90% of it is for their own opinion and not factual stuff. Explanations perhaps, doesn't always mean I am right or it IS the right thing.

I never claim WN is all mighty, if I dare do so I be sure to back it up with Facts. I like to think I develope a reputation for being clear, and factual at all times even if it means I have to be wrong. I never try to bribe people into one thing and call them BS's and all, I may state their "facts" are BS. However, to state stuff like WN is not a Real Airline is truthfully, BS. You all know it, it is a Major Airline, Domestically the largest and is known on par for having great CS. To say it isn't is just wrong, and you all know it. Those are the type of unfactual comments I DO get defensive on.

. All these years he was bragging about WN whenever he could. Now WN have changed little policy and Tommy is pissed :) Love it! LOL

No, it really isn't funny, it is quite sad, that one of the best customers for SWA, Tommy is all of a sudden mad at the airline he bragged about and gave the airline free advertising using his license plate. I took it upon myself not only as a friend but as a WN Employee to FIND OUT why he was upset, make excuses stating one thing if needed, and make calls and stuff to my co workers at the company to find out what happened and why he got the pass he did. I got my reasons, explained it to him, apologized, and encouraged him to call Colleen again or write in, as any of you that don't like what WN is offering and complain. WN is ONLY as good as the customer makes it, if you make it a bad flight its GOING to be a bad flight period. The same goes for ANY Airline, and believe it or not WN DOES CARE and WILL respond effectively ASAP to try to come to a reason between you the Customer and Southwest the Airline.


Alex