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Thread: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

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    Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    This just makes my blood boil.

    [youtubetp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-wJkrEnmtg[/youtubeI can't believe people in the background were boo-ing this man off his mic. And then, his mic "suddenly" cut out. It's one thing to be Republican or Democrat, but we're talking about people serving our country - many of whom are IN IRAQ now, on their second or third tours, and not to mention the discharged Arabic linguists (one of whom is a friend of mine)...

    You just have to ask yourself, "Why?!" If they want to serve, LET THEM SERVE. Leave the politics, religion, and rhetoric out of it.

    As for those "christian values," more Republican "Kool Aid."

    For the record, I'm a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" survivor. And I can tell you after five years of living through it that it's all a bunch of bull****.

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW
    You just have to ask yourself, "Why?!" If they want to serve, LET THEM SERVE. Leave the politics, religion, and rhetoric out of it.

    As for those "christian values," more Republican "Kool Aid."

    For the record, I'm a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" survivor. And I can tell you after five years of living through it that it's all a bunch of bull****.
    How about letting the Military decide The Miliary does not want gay people in the military, "Don't ask, Don't tell" was a fair compromise.

    While people focus on why people were expelled from the Military for their sexual preference, nobody talks about why they did they lie to get to join.

    In the future, gays will be allowed to serve, but, it will take some time for this to happen.....
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Mike
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW
    ...nobody talks about why they did they lie to get to join.
    Uh, first of all - we didn't lie to get in. I did it to be part of something larger than myself. And Don't Ask, Don't Tell doesn't ban GLBT folks from service. It bans them from serving openly.

    Have you ever worn the uniform?

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW
    Uh, first of all - we didn't lie to get in. I did it to be part of something larger than myself. And Don't Ask, Don't Tell doesn't ban GLBT folks from service. It bans them from serving openly.

    Have you ever worn the uniform?
    Yes, 4 years in the Navy.......
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Well cool. I respect your opinion.

    However, if we let the military decide, and their decision is unconstitutional, what then?

    And take those arabic linguists. How many hundreds of thousands of tax dollars were spent to train those folks? All down the drain because of who they choose to love.

    It's a shame, a damn shame.

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    An individual who serves in the military deserves the utmost respect. It doesnt matter if he's and openly Gay or someone who is straight. Chris and many others like him decided to dedicate a part of their lives to serve their country. When you are on the battlefield and being shot at the gay guy is going to shed blood the same way a straight guy will. No one asks anyone to serve in the military, all of these guys whether gay or straight want to be there and they should ALL be respected for their dedication and sacrifice. Other countries have seen this logic and have successfully included gay individuals in their forces and is one of the reasons I say the US may be ahead in so many areas, but is so far behind in many crucial areas as well. Im sure Chris did the same, if not better job in the Navy as any straight guy would do and I know his living space was probably the cleanest on board because you know us gay guys are neat freaks ;).


    ..And about the so called plants at the Republican debate....so what that it happened? This is politics, its not a clean business. The big boys on stage all of he sudden are afraid to be questioned by their adversaries? The fact the the right wing yahoos in the audience were booing a decorated veteran is pathetic, but typical of their hypocritical beliefs. If anything there were not deft enough to trick CNN and send their plants in on the Democratic debates. No matter what, all the candidates stink in their own way. Richard Nixon and Harry Truman, the two best Presidents since WWII (in my opinion) are turning in their graves.

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    I am a registered Republican, but I do not follow their entire platform. One part of it that embarrasses me is their stance on homosexuals.

    People need to realize the following:

    1. Is there a problem with gays being in the military? Yes, there are.

    2. Why is there a problem? Because of IMMATURITY.

    The gay community has made great strides in awareness over the past 20 years, but there is still much more to go. Unfortunately, there are many people in the country who come from areas where they've not received that awareness, or have never experienced that diversity. Combine that with a group of men put together who share many personal moments and times in their lives, some may get a little uncomfortable. It's the truth, albeit an unfortunate one.

    "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is silly. But it works. All is really does is say, "Be who you are, but there's a time and a place for it." That is technically the same policy for straight people as well, who are not allowed to do anything with other opposite gender on base and face very strict sexual harassment policies.

    Of course, things happen. We aren't going to sit here and say that no one touches another (gay or straight) in the military, that people don't hook upon base, and so forth. Control and discretion, and maturity, are key.

    The ban on gays is just one of those laws that sit there, mostly unenforced. Slavery was allowed in Mississippi up until like 12 years ago, until someone realized "Whoops! This is stupid!" It is a great shame and petty excuse when the ban in the military is actually applied to discharges or punishment. One can only hope that in the future, awareness will improve and more progress will be made.

    To the gay community, you've been doing well so far. Persistence and patience will get you further.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    The gay community has made great strides over the past several years, we have become more mainstream and people have seen that we are mainly not group of people who does drugs, goes to circuit parties and cross dresses. We still have a way to go, because many people in their mind still maintain that extreme image of a gay man, but in actuality represents a extremist and vocal minority of the gay community that seems to get all the attention. Im sure many wouldnt mind serving next to gay men like Chris or myself. Guys like us represent the majority of normal gay men. Phil I agree there is immaturity involved but part of the maturing process requires the government to be on our side as well. But still, you and Mel get voted "Most Gay Friendly Heterosexual Couple" in my book.

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    1. Is there a problem with gays being in the military? Yes, there are.

    2. Why is there a problem? Because of IMMATURITY.
    Exactly the reason why they should be allowed to serve openly. Ignorance is bliss.

    So, let me get this straight (no pun intended)...

    Even though I ran circles around the other technicians in my shop (subordinates and superiors) and knew the F/A-18 inside and out - better than anyone else there - I shouldn't have been allowed to serve because someone who was raised under a veil of ignorance in Kansas might feel uncomfortable around me?!

    I worked long, sweltering, 12-hour days on an aircraft carrier flight deck in the Persian Gulf for 6 months straight as a troubleshooter and team leader AND supervised 12 other technicians and an avionics maintenance effort on 20+ year-old aircraft without any weekends or time off. And you're telling me I shouldn't have been allowed to serve openly?

    Phil, unfortunately your argument doesn't add up.

    Consider what happens when a ship returns from a deployment. Imagine being in my shoes, watching my straight counterparts get reunited with their girlfriends and wives after a six month deployment. You're telling me I shouldn't be allowed to experience that with my significant other in public in that case? You're saying I should have to hide behind a closed door because some ignorant child from Kansas might get offended?

    C'mon, man.

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Phil - out of curiosity, have you ever served in the armed forces?

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    1. Is there a problem with gays being in the military? Yes, there are.

    2. Why is there a problem? Because of IMMATURITY.
    Exactly the reason why they should be allowed to serve openly. Ignorance is bliss.

    So, let me get this straight (no pun intended)...

    Even though I ran circles around the other technicians in my shop (subordinates and superiors) and knew the F/A-18 inside and out - better than anyone else there - I shouldn't have been allowed to serve because someone who was raised under a veil of ignorance in Kansas might feel uncomfortable around me?!

    I worked long, sweltering, 12-hour days on an aircraft carrier flight deck in the Persian Gulf for 6 months straight as a troubleshooter and team leader AND supervised 12 other technicians and an avionics maintenance effort on 20+ year-old aircraft without any weekends or time off. And you're telling me I shouldn't have been allowed to serve openly?

    Phil, unfortunately your argument doesn't add up.

    Consider what happens when a ship returns from a deployment. Imagine being in my shoes, watching my straight counterparts get reunited with their girlfriends and wives after a six month deployment. You're telling me I shouldn't be allowed to experience that with my significant other in public in that case? You're saying I should have to hide behind a closed door because some ignorant child from Kansas might get offended?

    C'mon, man.
    Exactly my thought, there are good and bad apples in every group, nationality, etc. People should be mature enough to see that one's sexual preference doesnt hinder them from performing a job equal and depending on the person even better than anyone else could. I do not friend someone or respect them based on their nationality, ideology, their sexual preference, etc. I look at who they are as an individual. I may take them to task for things i dont agree with them about, but its not how I choose people to associate with. Trust me, there are a number of Gays, Italians (my groups) that I would not rather associate myself with because they are not respectable individuals. But in summary, I think closed minded people really need to grow up and stop judging people on everything but how they merit as a respectable human being.

    In defense of Phil, he has always accepted me for who I was as a person (Mel too). While many closed minded people tend to back off when they hear a friend is gay, Phil embraced our friendship and was always a great sport with my gay-straight jokes. Our politics and my rampant Italian nationalism may not line up with each other, but we will always be good friends and I will never forget the respect he has always shown me.

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Shouldn't one of the "experiences" people get from the military be interaction with people from different races, religions, and sexual orientations? This is the real world, and there are a lot of different kinds of people out there, and we shouldn't try to "protect" some the closed-minded ones because of their beliefs. I wouldn't be surprised if those rather pathetic answers that were given on stage are similar to the ones given when African Americans were barred from military service. It's the same backward, old-fashioned thinking.

    I wish at every debate, both republican and democratic, the questioners could respond to the candidates responses, because I never felt they were quite adequate. I have no idea who the heck I'm going to vote for, I hate practically all the candidates (especially the ones that actually have a chance to reach the general election), and I have no idea what each one stands for because at each debate they almost always dodge the real question!
    Nick S. @ EWR

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    I am a registered Republican, but I do not follow their entire platform. One part of it that embarrasses me is their stance on homosexuals.

    People need to realize the following:

    1. Is there a problem with gays being in the military? Yes, there are.

    2. Why is there a problem? Because of IMMATURITY.

    The gay community has made great strides in awareness over the past 20 years, but there is still much more to go. Unfortunately, there are many people in the country who come from areas where they've not received that awareness, or have never experienced that diversity. Combine that with a group of men put together who share many personal moments and times in their lives, some may get a little uncomfortable. It's the truth, albeit an unfortunate one.

    .
    There is immaturity on both sides of the aisle, heterosexual & homosexual & both sides are simply not ready to work side-by-side.....

    When gays are accepted openly into society then the integration into the military can start....

    Oh yeah, a Democratic President is not going to be able to get the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy lifted anytime soon, the military brass will refuse to bend on that, no matter what they are saying at the debates......
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by NcSchu
    Shouldn't one of the "experiences" people get from the military be interaction with people from different races, religions, and sexual orientations? This is the real world, and there are a lot of different kinds of people out there, and we shouldn't try to "protect" some the closed-minded ones because of their beliefs. I wouldn't be surprised if those rather pathetic answers that were given on stage are similar to the ones given when African Americans were barred from military service. It's the same backward, old-fashioned thinking.
    Since you brought up African-Americans, it took about a 100 years before blacks were allowed to serve in the Armed Services.
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

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    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
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    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Mike
    Since you brought up African-Americans, it took about a 100 years before blacks were allowed to serve in the Armed Services.
    Mike, homosexuals have served in the US Military for over 230 years.

    It's ironic that Rep. Hunter quoted Colin Powell in saying "openly homosexual people serving in the ranks would be bad for unit cohesion". Sixty years ago, they were making the same arguments to keep African-Americans segregated in the armed forces. President Truman ordered the services integrated, the unit got over it, and General Powell went on to become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is silly. But it works. All is really does is say, "Be who you are, but there's a time and a place for it." That is technically the same policy for straight people as well, who are not allowed to do anything with other opposite gender on base and face very strict sexual harassment policies.
    No Phil, it doesn't work. A heterosexual service member can bring their partner to the Officers Club or NCO Club on a Friday night for drinks or dinner. A homosexual can't. It extends far beyond sexual harassment policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    The ban on gays is just one of those laws that sit there, mostly unenforced.
    Sorry to pile on Phil, but have you been following this at all? "Mostly unenforced"? Over 10,000 troops have been discharged since "don't ask, don't tell" was enacted. There have been many cases where disclosure wasn't voluntary by the military member - while trying to follow the policy, they were "outed" by other means, and were discharged.

    What people tend to forget is the rest of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is "Don't Pursue, Don't Harass". It's time to change this law now.

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