Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 47

Thread: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

  1. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The weather sucks in Seattle
    Posts
    4,899

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by moose135
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Mike
    Since you brought up African-Americans, it took about a 100 years before blacks were allowed to serve in the Armed Services.
    Mike, homosexuals have served in the US Military for over 230 years.
    The topic was allowing homosexuals to serve "openly" in the military. I am sure that there were gays serving under Caesar during the Roman Empire
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

  2. #17
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    12,470

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    1. Is there a problem with gays being in the military? Yes, there are.

    2. Why is there a problem? Because of IMMATURITY.
    Exactly the reason why they should be allowed to serve openly. Ignorance is bliss.

    So, let me get this straight (no pun intended)...

    Even though I ran circles around the other technicians in my shop (subordinates and superiors) and knew the F/A-18 inside and out - better than anyone else there - I shouldn't have been allowed to serve because someone who was raised under a veil of ignorance in Kansas might feel uncomfortable around me?!

    I worked long, sweltering, 12-hour days on an aircraft carrier flight deck in the Persian Gulf for 6 months straight as a troubleshooter and team leader AND supervised 12 other technicians and an avionics maintenance effort on 20+ year-old aircraft without any weekends or time off. And you're telling me I shouldn't have been allowed to serve openly?

    Phil, unfortunately your argument doesn't add up.

    Consider what happens when a ship returns from a deployment. Imagine being in my shoes, watching my straight counterparts get reunited with their girlfriends and wives after a six month deployment. You're telling me I shouldn't be allowed to experience that with my significant other in public in that case? You're saying I should have to hide behind a closed door because some ignorant child from Kansas might get offended?

    C'mon, man.
    We actually are on the same page. You seem to still think that I should the ban should exist. I don't. It should be lifted. Unfortunately, for the reasons I stated, it just won't be for some time until people mature more and the gay community make larger strides.

    I'm Ex-Navy.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  3. #18
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    12,470

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Mike
    Since you brought up African-Americans, it took about a 100 years before blacks were allowed to serve in the Armed Services.
    African-Americans actually served in the American Revolution.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  4. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The weather sucks in Seattle
    Posts
    4,899

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by moose135
    It's ironic that Rep. Hunter quoted Colin Powell in saying "openly homosexual people serving in the ranks would be bad for unit cohesion". Sixty years ago, they were making the same arguments to keep African-Americans segregated in the armed forces. President Truman ordered the services integrated, the unit got over it, and General Powell went on to become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

    .
    There is no comparison between the blacks of yesterday & homosexuals of today. Blacks were part of society, openly (can't hide the color thing) for quite some time, also, it took close to 100 years from when the blacks were freed to serving in the military....

    Though homosexuality has been around for quite some time, it is only in the past 20 years that gay people have begun to be accepted into society....

    While people are pushing for gays to be allowed to serve openly in the military, more time should be given to allow gays to be accepted more into society & then later into the military....
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

  5. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The weather sucks in Seattle
    Posts
    4,899

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    [quote=Phil D.]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Midnight Mike":10710
    Since you brought up African-Americans, it took about a 100 years before blacks were allowed to serve in the Armed Services.
    African-Americans actually served in the American Revolution.[/quote:10710]

    There are always exceptions, some blacks fought in the Revolutionary War to win their freedom, hell, some blacks even fought in the Civil War, but these were special cases.

    It was not until WWII that blacks were allowed to serve without restrictions in the Military....
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

  6. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Howard Beach, NY & Bari, Italia
    Posts
    371

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    [quote=Midnight Mike]
    Quote Originally Posted by moose135
    Quote Originally Posted by "Midnight Mike":eec57
    Since you brought up African-Americans, it took about a 100 years before blacks were allowed to serve in the Armed Services.
    Mike, homosexuals have served in the US Military for over 230 years.
    The topic was allowing homosexuals to serve "openly" in the military. I am sure that there were gays serving under Caesar during the Roman Empire [/quote:eec57]


    Yes, and it was a more accepted practice than it is now in the United States. If "Domitius" was a strong talented soldier, thats all that mattered to Rome, no one cared what "Domitius" did in his bedroom when he off duty.

  7. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    8,285

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Yes, and it was a more accepted practice than it is now in the United States. If "Domitius" was a strong talented soldier, thats all that mattered to Rome, no one cared what "Domitius" did in his bedroom when he off duty.
    That's because homosexuality and bisexuality were openly practiced in the Roman Empire, that's no secret.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Tom_Turner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW
    Even though I ran circles around the other technicians in my shop (subordinates and superiors) and knew the F/A-18 inside and out - better than anyone else there - I shouldn't have been allowed to serve because someone who was raised under a veil of ignorance in Kansas might feel uncomfortable around me?!
    Ironically, thats more or less one of the core "political correctness" tenets that goes around these days... for example, a Christmas Tree will "offend" 2% of the population, so it needs to be expunged from the public square. Queue the search for the "correct" constitutional "interpretation" etc.... :D

    There is plenty of hypocrisy on both sides of these issues...

    Phil's right, its simply a hot potato because it is sexuality, and theres mostly emotion under whatever arguments people may put forth... It is more or less accepted today that folks are born gay, but just let someone attempt a scientific inquiry into violent (or criminal) behavior on genetic grounds and see how fast that effort gets shut down... we prefer to believe all those proclivities are entirely environmental.

    For what its worth though Chris, I don't personally disagree with what your position.

    And, I think it'll ultimately, at some point, be decided in a way you favor. After all, a Jewish soldier not too many years ago, sued for the right to wear a Yarmulke and won. A fairly small issue in the larger scheme of things, (after all "why not?") although, I had thought one of the functions of boot camp was to wipe out individual identity to an extent, for a greater cause...

    There will be a lot to be ironed out though I suppose. Gays cannot get married technically in most cases, but the military (govt) will need to provide family housing subsidies for gay boyfriends and girlfriends (that might not have chosen to be "married" even if they could) and that will afford an advantage over straight couples that choose not to be married..(and that will be an added expense for govt), although not to do so will afford an "unfair" advantage for "straight" enlistees, etc.

    Just out of curiosity, do women serve in front line combat positions these days?

    Just curious.
    "Keep 'em Flying"

  9. #24
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    12,470

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    As I understand, women do not serve in "front line" positions, but can support front line troops. They are out in the same patrols with the guys getting hit by IEDs, so they do see combat.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  10. #25
    Senior Member Tom_Turner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    As I understand, women do not serve in "front line" positions, but can support front line troops. They are out in the same patrols with the guys getting hit by IEDs, so they do see combat.
    Yeah, thats what I thought.

    Don't suppose anyone is wondering if its "constitutional" though.

    Tom
    "Keep 'em Flying"

  11. #26
    Senior Member Tom_Turner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by moose135
    Over 10,000 troops have been discharged since "don't ask, don't tell" was enacted. There have been many cases where disclosure wasn't voluntary by the military member - while trying to follow the policy, they were "outed" by other means, and were discharged.

    What people tend to forget is the rest of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is "Don't Pursue, Don't Harass". It's time to change this law now.
    Thats an excellent point.
    "Keep 'em Flying"

  12. #27
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    8,039

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Turner
    Just out of curiosity, do women serve in front line combat positions these days?
    I don't think they are in Army infantry units, but they flight fighters and bombers in the Air Force and Navy, and as Phil alluded to, provide security for convoys in Iraq, among other duties.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Tom_Turner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,193

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    One can only hope that in the future, awareness will improve and more progress will be made.

    To the gay community, you've been doing well so far. Persistence and patience will get you further.
    In defense of any activists thinking time is of the essence here, they might be right.

    I'd suggest the media, though prime time Television, cable and satellite technology is mostly responsible for conditioning/mainstreaming homosexuality for "Middle America". [the fact that most of the context is within prime time sitcom refuse is sort of the beside the point here]. It seems natural to assume a progression of "awareness" or the sexual revolution of the 1960s, but that may not be the case.

    If the demographics of the country progress along Latino lines, (and muslim), in the context of multiculturalism, (i.e. the emphasis on changing the host country, not the immigrant) within the republic/democracy, I wonder how things will go 30 years from now? I think I know how it works in some Muslim countries, but not really up to speed on gay rights in Latin America and Mexico.

    All the New York City based gay political drama seemed to focus around The St Patrick Day's Parade, Ancient Order of Hibernians and the Catholic Church. Are there now, or will there be, gay floats and marching bands in Muslim and Latino Parades in the future?
    "Keep 'em Flying"

  14. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    403

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    Gay service members are DYING for this country as we speak and have been for hundreds of years, but aren't allowed to hug someone they love in public when - and if - they come home to their loved ones unless it's behind a veil of secrecy all because some joker from Kansas can't handle reality.

    It's bull****.

    It's a damn shame.

    It's un-American.

    Most of all, though, its inhumane.

  15. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    403

    Re: Republican Candidates Self-Destruct on CNN

    And what's the old addage? "They gave me a medal for killing a man, and fired me for loving one." :roll:

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •