The topic was allowing homosexuals to serve "openly" in the military. I am sure that there were gays serving under Caesar during the Roman EmpireOriginally Posted by moose135
The topic was allowing homosexuals to serve "openly" in the military. I am sure that there were gays serving under Caesar during the Roman EmpireOriginally Posted by moose135
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
run out of other people’s money.” - Margaret Thatcher
We actually are on the same page. You seem to still think that I should the ban should exist. I don't. It should be lifted. Unfortunately, for the reasons I stated, it just won't be for some time until people mature more and the gay community make larger strides.Originally Posted by ChrisW
I'm Ex-Navy.
Email me anytime at [email protected].
African-Americans actually served in the American Revolution.Originally Posted by Midnight Mike
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There is no comparison between the blacks of yesterday & homosexuals of today. Blacks were part of society, openly (can't hide the color thing) for quite some time, also, it took close to 100 years from when the blacks were freed to serving in the military....Originally Posted by moose135
Though homosexuality has been around for quite some time, it is only in the past 20 years that gay people have begun to be accepted into society....
While people are pushing for gays to be allowed to serve openly in the military, more time should be given to allow gays to be accepted more into society & then later into the military....
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
run out of other people’s money.” - Margaret Thatcher
[quote=Phil D.]African-Americans actually served in the American Revolution.[/quote:10710]Originally Posted by "Midnight Mike":10710
There are always exceptions, some blacks fought in the Revolutionary War to win their freedom, hell, some blacks even fought in the Civil War, but these were special cases.
It was not until WWII that blacks were allowed to serve without restrictions in the Military....
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
run out of other people’s money.” - Margaret Thatcher
[quote=Midnight Mike]The topic was allowing homosexuals to serve "openly" in the military. I am sure that there were gays serving under Caesar during the Roman Empire [/quote:eec57]Originally Posted by moose135
Yes, and it was a more accepted practice than it is now in the United States. If "Domitius" was a strong talented soldier, thats all that mattered to Rome, no one cared what "Domitius" did in his bedroom when he off duty.
That's because homosexuality and bisexuality were openly practiced in the Roman Empire, that's no secret.Yes, and it was a more accepted practice than it is now in the United States. If "Domitius" was a strong talented soldier, thats all that mattered to Rome, no one cared what "Domitius" did in his bedroom when he off duty.
Ironically, thats more or less one of the core "political correctness" tenets that goes around these days... for example, a Christmas Tree will "offend" 2% of the population, so it needs to be expunged from the public square. Queue the search for the "correct" constitutional "interpretation" etc.... :DOriginally Posted by ChrisW
There is plenty of hypocrisy on both sides of these issues...
Phil's right, its simply a hot potato because it is sexuality, and theres mostly emotion under whatever arguments people may put forth... It is more or less accepted today that folks are born gay, but just let someone attempt a scientific inquiry into violent (or criminal) behavior on genetic grounds and see how fast that effort gets shut down... we prefer to believe all those proclivities are entirely environmental.
For what its worth though Chris, I don't personally disagree with what your position.
And, I think it'll ultimately, at some point, be decided in a way you favor. After all, a Jewish soldier not too many years ago, sued for the right to wear a Yarmulke and won. A fairly small issue in the larger scheme of things, (after all "why not?") although, I had thought one of the functions of boot camp was to wipe out individual identity to an extent, for a greater cause...
There will be a lot to be ironed out though I suppose. Gays cannot get married technically in most cases, but the military (govt) will need to provide family housing subsidies for gay boyfriends and girlfriends (that might not have chosen to be "married" even if they could) and that will afford an advantage over straight couples that choose not to be married..(and that will be an added expense for govt), although not to do so will afford an "unfair" advantage for "straight" enlistees, etc.
Just out of curiosity, do women serve in front line combat positions these days?
Just curious.
"Keep 'em Flying"
As I understand, women do not serve in "front line" positions, but can support front line troops. They are out in the same patrols with the guys getting hit by IEDs, so they do see combat.
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Yeah, thats what I thought.Originally Posted by Phil D.
Don't suppose anyone is wondering if its "constitutional" though.
Tom
"Keep 'em Flying"
Thats an excellent point.Originally Posted by moose135
"Keep 'em Flying"
I don't think they are in Army infantry units, but they flight fighters and bombers in the Air Force and Navy, and as Phil alluded to, provide security for convoys in Iraq, among other duties.Originally Posted by Tom_Turner
KC-135 - Passing gas & taking names!
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In defense of any activists thinking time is of the essence here, they might be right.Originally Posted by Phil D.
I'd suggest the media, though prime time Television, cable and satellite technology is mostly responsible for conditioning/mainstreaming homosexuality for "Middle America". [the fact that most of the context is within prime time sitcom refuse is sort of the beside the point here]. It seems natural to assume a progression of "awareness" or the sexual revolution of the 1960s, but that may not be the case.
If the demographics of the country progress along Latino lines, (and muslim), in the context of multiculturalism, (i.e. the emphasis on changing the host country, not the immigrant) within the republic/democracy, I wonder how things will go 30 years from now? I think I know how it works in some Muslim countries, but not really up to speed on gay rights in Latin America and Mexico.
All the New York City based gay political drama seemed to focus around The St Patrick Day's Parade, Ancient Order of Hibernians and the Catholic Church. Are there now, or will there be, gay floats and marching bands in Muslim and Latino Parades in the future?
"Keep 'em Flying"
Gay service members are DYING for this country as we speak and have been for hundreds of years, but aren't allowed to hug someone they love in public when - and if - they come home to their loved ones unless it's behind a veil of secrecy all because some joker from Kansas can't handle reality.
It's bull****.
It's a damn shame.
It's un-American.
Most of all, though, its inhumane.
And what's the old addage? "They gave me a medal for killing a man, and fired me for loving one." :roll:
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