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Thread: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

  1. #16
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    I finally understand your "window dressing" analogy. And, today, your correct, Tommy. But some of the numbers you have for IFE deployment aren't exactly accurate...

    The 767-400 fleet has four PTV-equipped aircraft flying with more being converted soon. The 777s were delivered new with Delta OnDemand PTVs throughout the cabin (they are being upgraded, however) - not to mention that 4% of 29 aircraft is less than 2 aircraft - c'mon, man! The 737-800 fleet has, and always has had, drop-down LCD screens since their initial delivery, as do the entire MD-90 fleet.

    Where on Earth (or Mars) did you get these figures from?

    My point is that Delta isn't stagnating. They really are changing, modernizing, and listening to their customers - finally.

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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyNavy
    I finally understand your "window dressing" analogy. And, today, your correct, Tommy. But some of the numbers you have for IFE deployment aren't exactly accurate...

    The 767-400 fleet has four PTV-equipped aircraft flying with more being converted soon. The 777s were delivered new with Delta OnDemand PTVs throughout the cabin (they are being upgraded, however) - not to mention that 4% of 29 aircraft is less than 2 aircraft - c'mon, man! The 737-800 fleet has, and always has had, drop-down LCD screens since their initial delivery, as do the entire MD-90 fleet.

    Where on Earth (or Mars) did you get these figures from?

    My point is that Delta isn't stagnating. They really are changing, modernizing, and listening to their customers - finally.
    Chris got them right from Delta media relations. A nice girl named Betsy who works for Delta in press relations. The numbers are based on combined fleets. So if you're disputing the numbers talk to Delta.

  3. #18
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    I'm not disputing them, I'm telling you your information is non-factual, regardless of what Betty Bop told you to set the record straight and mow through all the baloney. :-)

    [airlinerstp://www.airliners.net/open.file/1096178/L/[/airlinersairlinerstp://www.airliners.net/open.file/0743331/L/[/airlinersairlinerstp://www.airliners.net/open.file/1224313/L/[/airlinersairlinerstp://www.airliners.net/open.file/1253359/L/[/airliners:1c13c]

  4. #19
    Senior Member Winglets747's Avatar
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Ron, I had no problems with the pictures. At the beginning one person did give me a look, but no one said anything and many staff members were accommodating in stepping out of the frame for a second. I was told the entire place was run by actual DL employees. I think most of the employees are with DL, but there were some techies helping people in the AmEx computer lounge, plus security and catering. One lady I spoke to normally works in the LGA Crown Room.

    Tommy, if I were an off-the-street person I would have an enhanced view of Delta, but I don't think it would become my primary airline, or one I specifically looked for when booking flights. The area to try out the seats was in the back, and few people went there during my visit. While I was over there, there was a businessman who was trying out the seat, only to ask what BusinessElite was. Was it first class? Business class?

    Your analogy of the wool being pulled over your eyes is very fitting. While passengers flying out of NYC may have a better percentage chance of getting this service, it would still be a small number. Even if I knew I would get this service (say flying to the West Coast or to Europe) I would not go out of my way to fly Delta. I would actually pay more to fly a different carrier, unless it was much more expensive. IFE is not my top priority. An airline needs to win me with service (AA is a good example of a US airline) and comfortable seating. I haven't tried out the new economy seats, but I think the color would be enough to make me uncomfortable.

    The advertising you saw behind the bar also ran as wall decoration in the seating area but no where else. I agree there could have--and should have--been more advertising. There were LCDs, but they were promoting Coca Cola. I loved the "Cheat on New York" campaign from last spring. It reminded me of how fun and exciting traveling can be, and it definitely made me want to travel more. And now with Delta flying to Cairo, Nairobi, and other places it's a world airline and brings back the faint memories I have of Pan Am and TWA. How many people know Delta will be flying to Nairobi? When I see Delta's current "Change is..." ad campaign, all I can think is "Change is...not Delta."

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyNavy
    My point is that Delta isn't stagnating. They really are changing, modernizing, and listening to their customers - finally.
    Chris you had me up until you said Delta is listening to customers. Delta is playing the game of appearing to listen to customers while trying to reap as much profit as they can. The SkyMiles program is at the heart of all of this, and that's where probably the most important customers are. Delta needs to pick a side by acknowledging their customers and doing what's best for them, or announce they no longer care about them and just want money. US Airways basically did the latter when they re-configured the Airbus narrowbody fleet by taking out a closet and first class seats. A few months later, CEO Doug Parker wrote a letter that basically started with "We messed up" and announced a better configuration. US gained a lot of trust back from Parker's acknowledgment (but it should be noted customers are still pretty unhappy). If Delta wants to be successful with its impressive route map, it needs the full backing of its customers. Delta may not see the benefits immediately, but with due time they will.
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  5. #20
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Delta is playing the game of appearing to listen to customers while trying to reap as much profit as they can.
    Well, yeah - they're a business (big surprise). What are they supposed to do? Throw their hands up and surrender? Liquidate? Perhaps you can give us some informed, educated, and factual examples as to how they AREN'T listening to their customers?

    After all, IFE is being deployed throughout the fleet. These modifications take 2 weeks per aircraft and do NOT happen over night (regardless of what airline it is). New seats are being installed aircraft by aircraft (which, by the way, are very comfortable). Facilities are being rennovated and updated (been through Atlanta lately?). Buy-on-board meals are returning to the skies. The 767-400ERs have FINALLY been deployed where they need to be - internationally. The JFK schedule has been adjusted to help with delays (which, by the way, are NOT Delta's fault - every airline at JFK has a hand in it).

    Hell, even the Dirty Martini has returned.

    What MORE do you want? A red carpet? Free parking? A nonstop flight from LGA to Billings, Montana? An MD-80 with PTVs throughout the cabin on your 1 hour flight to DCA?

    Tommy says all of these things are "window dressings" within the company. I (and no doubt, others) want informed, factual examples of this from you guys - the experts. :roll:

    If Delta wants to be successful with its impressive route map, it needs the full backing of its customers. Delta may not see the benefits immediately, but with due time they will.
    If they weren't successful (which they are, based on the latest numbers), why in God's creation do you think they are EXPANDING the network even further?

  6. #21
    Senior Member MarkLawrence's Avatar
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    I really hope that Delta has the 767-400's fully fitted when our family goes to South Africa next March - I'd much rather have a PTV for 18 1/2 hours and hopefully keep 3 year old entertained for a while than trying to do it with something else like a drop down!
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Tommy says all of these things are "window dressings" within the company. I (and no doubt, others) want informed, factual examples of this from you guys - the experts.
    A few questions?

    -What do consider infrormed factual examples?

    -Who are the experts to you?

    -Do you consider yourself an expert?

    -Why is one travelers opinion not a valid opinion of the operation of an airline?

    I think we all understand that Delta is changing but I also think its fair to say that people's opinions of any company are going to stick with them for some time until change is made.

  8. #23
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Tommy says all of these things are "window dressings" within the company. I (and no doubt, others) want informed, factual examples of this from you guys - the experts.
    A few questions?

    -What do consider infrormed factual examples?

    -Who are the experts to you?

    -Do you consider yourself an expert?

    -Why is one travelers opinion not a valid opinion of the operation of an airline?

    I think we all understand that Delta is changing but I also think its fair to say that people's opinions of any company are going to stick with them for some time until change is made.

  9. #24
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    What do consider infrormed factual examples?
    Something not completely incorrect (i.e. 4% of the 777s and 764s combined have PTV). You knew darn well that this wasn't the case, but posted it anyway because Betty Bop at Delta media relations told you so (allegedly). Another example would be your "dated fleet" remark a while back. Delta operates roughly the same age fleet that American flies and the various aircraft types are deployed similarly throughout each carrier's network.

    Fact: the 777s were delivered brand new with PTVs (that's 8 total aircraft, 100%).
    Fact: Delta's cabins went from being deep cleaned once every 18 months to once every 30 days.
    Who are the experts to you?
    Good question. But clearly you aren't, and neither am I - nor have I ever claimed to be.
    Why is one travelers opinion not a valid opinion of the operation of an airline?
    Take your opinion for example. Sure, you had a bad experience with Delta. Does that mean the person sitting next to you on your last Delta flight did? Or the person next to him, or her, etc.?

    Fact: Delta has posted record load factor results for the last two months. If Delta performed so poorly in customer service, surely this wouldn't be the case.

    In all honesty I'm tiring over this endless debate. Delta's expanding, people are happy - the employees, investors, and the customers. The airline is moving forward from a rough five years and painful bankruptcy. Surely they'll survive and flourish - with or without Tommy's blessing.

  10. #25
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Winglets747
    Your analogy of the wool being pulled over your eyes is very fitting. While passengers flying out of NYC may have a better percentage chance of getting this service, it would still be a small number. Even if I knew I would get this service (say flying to the West Coast or to Europe) I would not go out of my way to fly Delta. I would actually pay more to fly a different carrier, unless it was much more expensive. IFE is not my top priority. An airline needs to win me with service (AA is a good example of a US airline) and comfortable seating. I haven't tried out the new economy seats, but I think the color would be enough to make me uncomfortable.
    So, what are they supposed to do? Not market their new products until it is deployed fleet-wide? :roll:

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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyNavy
    So, what are they supposed to do? Not market their new products until it is deployed fleet-wide? :roll:

    Actually that would be a very wise idea!


    Southwest did this when we retrofitted our interior seats to all new, blue leather seats, We did not make the announcement until every aircraft had the new interior inside.

    Why promise something we cannot deliver?

    Once every aircraft had the brand new, leather interior seats, immediatly SWA could make claim, "come fly on our brand new interior aircrafts" and not have a 8% of fleet has them or, 25% are yet to be worked on. WN could promise something overall.

    Alex
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex T
    Once every aircraft had the brand new, leather interior seats, immediatly SWA could make clima, "come fly on our brand new interior aircrafts" and not have a 8% of fleet has them or, 25% are yet to be worked on. WN could promise something overall.
    This made absolutely no sense. Care to rephrase that?

  13. #28
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyNavy
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex T
    Once every aircraft had the brand new, leather interior seats, immediatly SWA could make clima, "come fly on our brand new interior aircrafts" and not have a 8% of fleet has them or, 25% are yet to be worked on. WN could promise something overall.
    This made absolutely no sense. Care to rephrase that?
    Not sure what doesn't make sense? I did typo the CLAIM part, as in SWA Could make "CLAIM".

    Otherwise, what part are you not understanding? You claimed, what should DL do, wait till all of the aircrafts have them?

    I then said, it would be a great idea, as that is what WN did themselves. In 2001, when SWA started changing their interior planes, to the new blue leather seats we see now on board, SWA never made a claim, or a statement stating, "come fly us on our brand new leather seats" when in fact only 8% of them had been done, or we had to fill up 25% more of the fleet to new seat standards. They didn't wanna promise something, only 8% of the people traveling would experience...

    So instead, SWA just waited until every single aircraft had the new interior seats and THEN announced, "come fly on us, we have new leather seats, etc etc", and WN could make a promise they could keep and every passenger flying us would.

    Makes sense now?

    Alex
    www.southwest.com Bags Fly Free. Anytime, Anywhere on Southwest Airlines. Share the LUV!

  14. #29
    Senior Member Winglets747's Avatar
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    Re: Delta Brings In-Flight Experience from the Skies to Midtown

    I'm going to make this my last post on this matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyNavy
    Delta is playing the game of appearing to listen to customers while trying to reap as much profit as they can.
    Well, yeah - they're a business (big surprise). What are they supposed to do? Throw their hands up and surrender? Liquidate? Perhaps you can give us some informed, educated, and factual examples as to how they AREN'T listening to their customers?
    Rather than appearing to listen to customers, they should listen. If you want examples, go to the Delta forum on FlyerTalk.

    [quote[Facilities are being rennovated and updated (been through Atlanta lately?).[/quote]
    I was last there in February, and it was far, far better than JFK. Even if they did nothing to ATL and spruced up JFK, ATL would still be better because so many of DL's JFK terminal issues are deep-rooted (structural, layout) and need a serious renovation. DL has been quiet on a serious renovation and instead did small things like move BE check-in to T2, which is a bit nicer than T3. There's an example of window dressing.

    If Delta wants to be successful with its impressive route map, it needs the full backing of its customers. Delta may not see the benefits immediately, but with due time they will.
    If they weren't successful (which they are, based on the latest numbers), why in God's creation do you think they are EXPANDING the network even further?
    [/quote]
    Because there's more money in Europe flights than there is in US flights (which is why DL's domestic flights have decreased). Further, there's more money in flying to the Middle East, Asia, and Africa than Europe. Delta can be successful in two ways: a successful airline people do not like or a successful airline that people do like. Right now, they're the first. If they want to be the second, they need the full backing of the customers.

    We're merely customers discussing an airline and its faults. These are our views. Don't read anything more into that, and certainly don't take it personally just because you work for DL.
    Wings Down Under on Flightglobal

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