Getting used to us

[NIKV69]

You're making the assumption that the guard was complaining about av photography

Jesus Phil I am not. I am merely asking Ryan to clarify something in his post. If you are going to post something. Especially something as confusing as that well people are going to ask questions.

Those details weren't mentioned because there was no problem there. Things come up in conversation millions of ways, but yo need ot overanalyze and find problems to bring up out of nowhere.

Well if two people are talking about a certain topic and something comes up wouldn't someone infer it has something to do with it?

you brought up a sensitive topic of Law Enforcement with aviation photography in a negative light when there wasn't any reason for it,

Phil give me a break, all I did was point out that av-photo in no way causes any problems in aviation security. Something that (If you read Ryan's post) you could take the USNG for saying. All I asked Ryan for is any examples that were given. Which still I have heard none. All I got out of his post is that he spent some period of time explaining to someone what we do which IMO is not needed. They know damn well what is going on and don't need Ryan, or you or your post cards to educate them about it.

Aviation enthusiasm is a hobby that has so many different ways of enjoying and practicing it. However, as expansive as it is, you still seem to be so bored as to nitpick posts and find unnecessary debate where there shouldn't be any. It is most unfortunate that you've become the cat lady of the boards, hopelessly trying to create drama wherever you can for no apparent reason.

Not exactly but any drama would be better than the low quality posts that have become prevelant here. I actually agree with you at this point. I am sorry I read this post because not only do I not believe it happened but even if it did it served no purpose.

[Tom_Turner]

<< Yes, someone photographing areas in the airport can be a cause for alarm since it has been proved numerous times that terrorist scout out their targets. >>

I don't believe it has ever been established that terrorists have spent any significant time taking images of airliners per se.

They've certainly bombed trains all over the world, but it is not illegal to take pictures in the subway. They've certainly used the internet and we can all still use that. Many of them have certainly been Middle Eastern yet there is no profiling per se, many attend Mosques and we still have those.. ...on and on and on... Timmothy McViegh was not only in a Militia he was also in the US Army. People still join the Army don't they?

<< If I see someone standing in an area for an extended period of time and appears to be observing I may go over and ask if they need assistance and feel out what they are doing. It may be totally harmless or lead to something suspicious, it is how they answer that determines this. If you were to answer me "It is my right and why are you trampling my rights" then I will think you are over reacting to compensate for something.>>

I basically agree with this, but you know, there is a line to be drawn. The line of questioning can only reasonably go but so far. What you doing? Taking pictures. Of what? Of this Arch in in Washington Square Park. Why would you do that? I am making a documentary. Who are you going to show this to? etc etc etc..

I realize many folks on this board will not agree with me, but after a certain point is not any of Mr. Officers f*&king business.

<< Remember LGA, JFK & EWR are run by an authority and technically by such can be deemed private property. You do not have a right to do what ever you want in these areas. >>

I often over the years read that I should be reminded to "remember" this... Well, I happen to remember Hari Krishnas at airports, I happen to remember Homeless people taking over Terminal A in EWR for years. I happen to remember its a given that bureaucrats in govt assert their capricious decisions when given a little bit of power over the public they are employed to serve. It's like throwing steak into a dog pound.

Its really too bad resources are wasted on us so often, even by TSA on occasion. Its proof positive there is a lot of work to be done to prevent the next terrorist attack.

Tom

[nikon50bigma]

Those postcards are very helpful, I probably hand one out once a week.


Eric

To police that stop by, or regular people?

We have 4x6 promo cards for the site, that have Josh Akbar's Delta 762 photo from Planeview on the front. I'll give you one bigma the next time I see you.

Thanks Phil!

[PhilDernerJr]

It's not been abused, as people like Eric and Ryan know what they're doing, but as a rule of thumb, the promo cards should be used to promote the site, not as a "get out of jail free" card when police situations get hairy. I just want the new guys who might see and get them the for the first time to know its use.

[emshighway]

Remember one thing, National Guard are not professional law enforcement (no offense). They can be from various walks of life who have chosen to serve their country this way (and I applaud them). The Guard Officer happen to mention that a few days before the baggie incident they saw someone taking pictures and were relating that to an airline person (Hiss) for some clarification. Since it happen a few days earlier then I would have to speculate thats why they brought it up. The only person who would know for sure is the Guard officer themselves. They are there all the time, I suggest you go over and ask for yourself.

[NIKV69]

I realize many folks on this board will not agree with me, but after a certain point is not any of Mr. Officers f*&king business.

Good point Tom, thankfully it's the exception and not the rule. I still remember the civilian that gave Tommy **** and kept asking questions even after we all ignored him. That will happen I guess.

To police that stop by, or regular people?

I think Eric meant as educating people as to why people shoot and who some of the people shooting around airports are.

[SP-LPB]

It's not been abused, as people like Eric and Ryan know what they're doing, but as a rule of thumb, the promo cards should be used to promote the site, not as a "get out of jail free" card when police situations get hairy. I just want the new guys who might see and get them the for the first time to know its use.

Phil, I think that those cards, from what I've seen, are used more to identify the hobby and not to promote your site. I've seen many situations like that, recently at the mounds for example. I think they're a good use for those who cannot comprehend confrontations and stand their ground, or at least get out of it wisely and on a good note.

[PhilDernerJr]

Phil, I think that those cards, from what I've seen, are used more to identify the hobby and not to promote your site. I've seen many situations like that, recently at the mounds for example. I think they're a good use for those who cannot comprehend confrontations and stand their ground, or at least get out of it wisely and on a good note.

I completely see your point, but ultimately, it's a promo (promotional) card. It's main and original goal is/was to promote the website. None of its text on the back explain the hobby, and it's just got a very nice photo on the front. The site itself, and us as its members, can educate those who are not aware of the hobby to develop an understanding of what it is and what we do, and ultimately convey that we are not a threat.

Not that you necessarily said you would or that you have, but if someone decides to use the card by giving it to people who are giving you a hard time, then it is being used wrong. The promo card is not a badge to show your affiliation with the site or as a supplement for describing the hobby. It is to get people who show a positive interest in what we do to visit the site.

If someone think that what you are doing is a threat and they aren't open minded enough to grasp that through normal conversation, then the card isn't going to accomplish that either, and it will only add the site to the spotter's name or description if a report is made to the police. Then I, too, will get a visit from whomever in law enforcement might be sent out to investigate...no matter how silly or unwarranted such an "investigation" can be. And that is not far-fetched.

My goal with NYCA is for it to be a community for everyone. Though I have an ad here and there, I don't consider this a business for me, and I certainly am not feeding myself from it right now. My goal is to serve enthusiasts both in an out of New York, and to educate people about the hobby.

However, when it comes down to it, it's my name on the ownership of the domain and I'm in control of its content. There is a liability for no one here but me should a spotter do something illegal and he/she associates himself/herself with the site. Should something happen and through the promo card, or saying he's in "x" spot because he saw a map, read a post on the boards, etc., even if it's something someone else posted, it is my responsibility. The same goes for lawsuits. I've already come close to trouble in the past and it comes more easily than some of you might think.

Perhaps one day in the future NYCA will have an office and I'll have cards made for everyone to give out to those who aren't getting it and tell them to come visit me at the office anytime to learn. But we don't have that yet. I ask that all of you respect that for me, and use the cards with discretion.

All of you have respected that and I trust that you will continue to do so, which is why I hand out the promo cards in bunches like I do.

If some of you feel that there needs to be something that can be given out to the general, curious public in those situations in order to educate those who don't get it, then let me know. If you happen to want NYCA to represent you as a spotter in that respect, then we can work together to have something made that helps bridge that educational gap with society.

Also keep in mind that the schedule in my life has recently changed for the better, and we will now be able to move forward with new features, new sites, and programs, both that we've thought up and that you've asked for to help educate people and to continue to make the hobby more comfortable and fun for everyone to practice.

[Delta777LR]

the post card is helpful to have when approached by law Enforcement? I have the DL767-200 postcard i got from last year at the Marriot model display show i might start carrying it around for now on.

[PhilDernerJr]

Sergio, please read my post. It's the other way around, and I ask that people DON'T do that.

[NIKV69]

the post card is helpful to have when approached by law Enforcement?

Guys, when a law enforcement officer approaches you just tell them what you are doing and show them your ID. If your at a place that is private, for example Costco and they want yout to leave then leave quietly. If it is not then you will be able to continue. Not a hard concept. If the questioning gets to the point where they ask you what you do with the pics then you can tell them it's a hobby and then show them the postcard if you want. Simple. You don't need anything helpful to show them, just your ID. You are doing nothing wrong. Have a nice attitude and a smile and you will be fine. If you do get a officer that lies and tells you that you are doing something illegal and is nasty get his badge # and name and leave quietly. You can pursue it at a later time.

[MarkLawrence]

Well put Nick! that is simple, yet, exactly what is needed - this has been my experience when I've been in NY and the airports I spot at in Florida.

[emshighway]

the post card is helpful to have when approached by law Enforcement?

Guys, when a law enforcement officer approaches you just tell them what you are doing and show them your ID. If your at a place that is private, for example Costco and they want yout to leave then leave quietly. If it is not then you will be able to continue. Not a hard concept. If the questioning gets to the point where they ask you what you do with the pics then you can tell them it's a hobby and then show them the postcard if you want. Simple. You don't need anything helpful to show them, just your ID. You are doing nothing wrong. Have a nice attitude and a smile and you will be fine. If you do get a officer that lies and tells you that you are doing something illegal and is nasty get his badge # and name and leave quietly. You can pursue it at a later time.

Is this the same Nick :?

Nick is right on the mark. While I can understand the postcard adds some legitimacy to your discussion it should not be flashed as your permit to be all areas.

[hiss srq]

Look Nik, the card was used to point out the fact that hobby groups like this do exist and not everyone is out to do evil. Not every last thing needs to become a debate and to be honest I am sorry I brought it up because it seems your view is THE ONLY VIEW sometimes and that quite frankly becomes a bit of a frustration.The troops brought up national security because they sit around for the purpose of presence and cannot do anything in terms of law enforcement action to right the wrongs they see in their day to day at the airports around NY. Aviation photography became a part of the topic because one of the members felt it could be an issue in airports and I clarifyed that it is indeed a very large hobby citeing NYCA Anet and JP in the conversation as well as useing the post card as a sort of proof that these groups exist. I would never use it as a scape goat if something were to come up and expect that no one else would either. I thought the post card was a good way to present an example of the largeness of the hobby and that was that.

To the other point issued here about questioning photography. As a person who partakes in it myself I see no issues. I do when I see people shooting in the airport approach them though and generally in a positive manner just to kind of see whats going on and generally these people share the same passion as we do and I strike up a conversation about it with them. I see that as totally fine to do. I did not intend to make this a massive debate where people rip on each other and debate every last word of every last sentence. Last I checked this is a site for shareing of the hobby and making new freinds who share the same passions.

With my $.02 I have just put up I will now return to vacation and talk to everyone again soon.

[NYCMedic]

Remember one thing, National Guard are not professional law enforcement (no offense). They can be from various walks of life who have chosen to serve their country this way (and I applaud them). The Guard Officer happen to mention that a few days before the baggie incident they saw someone taking pictures and were relating that to an airline person (Hiss) for some clarification. Since it happen a few days earlier then I would have to speculate thats why they brought it up. The only person who would know for sure is the Guard officer themselves. They are there all the time, I suggest you go over and ask for yourself.

I know a bunch of Police Officers that are guardsmen, in fact a few are PAPD officers. So many of them are professional LEOs.