ExpressJet Baby Removal Update

[Midnight Mike]

Click on the video on the right, damn child could not stay calm from 5 seconds

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13675836/detail.html

[mirrodie]

Those of you that know my know that I love my son.
That said, I was one of the last generations where spanking your child was a permittable form of disciplining your child.

Sometime around that Hedda Nussebaum/Joel Steinberg case where he beat the child to death, it then became to crime to spank a child. Or so it seems it was around that time. Spanking and beating a kid to death and abusing them are two distinctly different things. Why do I mention this?

Here's the problem.

Several years ago, some asshat decided to make spanking kids and disciplining your kids a crime.

Then came the "Quiet Time " nonsense. This is usually preceded with numbers said aloud, "one, two,..." [For those that don't know, quiet time means go to your room. You know, the one with the TV, Nintendo, games, etc]

So as a result, we are left with kids today who run amuck and parents do not know how to raise them. So what does a parent do then?

Drug the kid with Benadryl.


This society has really evolved, hasn't it? (NOTE SARCASM) You can't legitimately spank your kids as a way of discipline but by the end of the day, you can drug your kid. Great job America.

So the problem in this instance was two-fold.

-I can't recall ever a plane having to divert for a misbehaving child. The FA was dead wrong and should be disciplined, re-trained or booted altogether. The simply negative publicity alone is costing her airline.

-The parent was wrong for not disciplining her child. However, I speculate that our society is partially at fault since this woman does not know how to discipline the kid.


Again, I am not saying go out and spank your child. I am saying parents have to exert authority and discipline. And society needs to bugger off and stay out of it.

In retrospect, who knows? I hypothesize that perhaps there are more beaten babies and children today than in the past. Why? Frustation build to the point of blow up and parents probably just lose it. Whereas a simply mild spanking can go much longer.

[RDU-JFK]

The FA probably had a bad day and was frustrated and took it out on the kid. I'm sure the kid was being loud and annoying, but kids are kids. These days they have to fly, and you just get used to them. Babies will cry, no one can prevent that. If an older child is being bratty the parents should be blamed for their lack of discipline. If there's an older, loud kid on a flight or restaurant being a brat, I give the parents a stern look of disapproval and hope others do the same so that the parents realize they need to discipline their kids. I flew with my family at the ages of 2, 3, and so on on extended flights to Italy but my parents always told me I was well-behaved. Mind you, growing up my parents disciplined me more than some parents today.

If I misbehaved as a kid and a stern yelling (not a talking to, a good old frightening yell) did not do the trick, I would have been slapped. I then learned that if I did something that upset my parents I would be hit, so I didn't do it anymore! I agree with mirrodie's points above that society should stay out of discipline as long as the kid isn't in pain.

[PhilDernerJr]

Well siad, Mario. Not to take away form what you said, but the best part was that you used the word "asshat".

It is very shocking how parents have no control over their children these days. Children used to respect, listen to and even admire their parents. That doesn't exist as much today.

[USAF Pilot 07]

It's funny you bring this up because just last week, I was having this same kind of discussion with some friends, after being around little kids whose parents obviously couldn't control/discipline them.

The problem is precisely a result of what Mario says: parents don't "beat" their kids anymore at appropriate times.

I learned very quickly that if I did something wrong, I would be spanked/slapped. Nowadays, parents are taught to try and talk rationally to their 4-year old, like they are some adult of something, and when that fails, to impose these stupid punishments that don't work, like Time-Out and "you can't play with this toy" and the like. Yea, kids don't like Time-Out, but they tend to forget about that a lot quicker than they do a slap on the head, or a spanking. When you know that you're going to get spanked or slapped if you get caught, it makes you definitely think twice before doing something wrong.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no advocate for straight up beating your child. But there is most certainly a time and place where a little physical punitive "corrective action" is appropriate.

There is also a mentality problem between parents and kids. Too many parents these days want to be "best friends" with their kids, and don't uphold the law, or just basic disciplinary standards in their households. I think part of it has to do with such a high divorce rate in this country, along with the fact that it's just "easier" to not discipline your kids, and to let them do whatever they please.

It doesn't help either that there are so many of these super-liberal child psychologists walking around, each with their own "holier-than-thou" opinion about how spanking your child is wrong, and not treating your child like a full grown adult is wrong, yet when you look at a lot of these peoples' kids, they are the ones on drugs, the ones with no discipline, getting into trouble and who are many times out of control....

[mirrodie]

If I misbehaved as a kid and a stern yelling (not a talking to, a good old frightening yell) did not do the trick, I would have been slapped. I then learned that if I did something that upset my parents I would be hit, so I didn't do it anymore! I agree with mirrodie's points above that society should stay out of discipline as long as the kid isn't in pain.

Its so simple and Pavlovian, right? I would have been spanked too. Also I got the belt threat and used a few times.

Here's another great tactic, and I've only heard Haitians do this: When I was acting up (being a brat or tormenting my brother or cousins,) my parents would make me "a jounoue" . Translation: I would have to face the corner of the room and kneel there. It probably lasted 3 minutes but it felt like an ETERNITY.
Effective? Yes.
Emotioinal scars? None.

My parents brought me up well and I don't hate them, not one second. They sacrificed so much and I deserved those spankings.

PHil, THank Royal for that term 8) I just learned how to use it in a sentence.

Oh and USAFPilot, thanks, I meant TIME OUT. I forgot and instead used QUiet time and it just didnt sound right.


The anti-spank clowns will point to emotional scars from childhood spanking. To that I ask what about the emotional scars of the frustrated yelling that helpless paretns do? Or the long term effects of these drugs that so many are advocating we use on the kids?


Back on topic, I hope this mother sues the airline. Further the FA be reprimanded. Also, what of the pilot who executed the decision to land? He is also accountable.

Lastly, the mother should be made to learn how to discipline her child. Too many faults surround this incident.

[NcSchu]

From what I've read the other passengers fully supported the mother and said the baby wasn't making any more noise than the adults on board. And as for spanking, personally I think it's rather a stupid concept and my opinion is that if a parent simply asserts his/her authority at once the child will understand. But there's no law saying you can't, just make sure you don't kill your kid when you do ("Parent/guardian/other person with care and supervision of person under 21, can use non-deadly physical force when and to the extent he reasonably believes necessary to maintain discipline or promote welfare of person force performed upon."). It's not that difficult a concept. Children don't know any better, they don't know what's right and what's wrong, it's up to the parents to show them.

[Midnight Mike]

Back on topic, I hope this mother sues the airline. Further the FA be reprimanded. Also, what of the pilot who executed the decision to land? He is also accountable.

Lastly, the mother should be made to learn how to discipline her child. Too many faults surround this incident.

According to the story, the mother of the little brat, threatened the Flight Attendant. Based on that, the Flight Attendant told the pilot that she was threatened, the pilot did not do anything wrong.

As to the Flight Attendant, did she go overboard? That is what the investigation will find out.

[mirrodie]

According to the story, the mother of the little brat, threatened the Flight Attendant. Based on that, the Flight Attendant told the pilot that she was threatened, the pilot did not do anything wrong.

As to the Flight Attendant, did she go overboard? That is what the investigation will find out.

Whoa. Wait a minute. How old is the child? And she was threatened? And she, of course, thinking this through, thought it was right ot easte fuel and time to kick the kid off the plane?


She was threatened......now I've heard it all. :roll:

[hiss srq]

Nows the mother threatened the flight attendant in which case I would have opted for the divert, had the little bitch and her kid thrown off and than debated whether to be a furthur prick and press charges against the mother for threatening the inflight crew.

[cancidas]

Drug the kid with Benadryl.

guys, that's not only reserved for kids. i do it to myself when i fly to PHX all the time! works wonders, but next time i'll ask the FA if i was a good boy or not.

aside from that stupidity parents these days really don't know how to discipline thier kids. i see it all the time with my sister and her friends, they run amok and are drugged up the wazoo for no reason. i would never have pulled half of that with my father, i'd have been smacked in the head and left in the corner to figure out why i got that smack. i'm not pro spanking, but there are times when the reaction is warranted. in other words, PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE THE HELL UP!

[Idlewild]

I am not a kid lover. Not by any means. Todays children have no manners and are spoiled rotten and are driven in strollers way past walking age. Saying that, if this kid behaved the same way on the airplane as he did on the show I don't see why the mother and child were thrown off. He's a bit restless but is surprisingly well mannered. Did anyone notice him saying "thank you" to the other host when he was given a ball? Not to many parents instill manners like that in their children these days. My guess is the mother and FA had words.