JeffM talking out of his rear end about JFK terminal

[NIKV69]

I don't know how they do things in Denver but last I checked you were allowed to take pics in the terminal as long as you were not photographing security checkpoints, but our ever colorful JeffM had to chime in with this nonsense.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/av ... in/271887/

I am banned on anet but could someone reply to this person. I mean why should someone not enjoy snapping some pics in NY because of this dumb "lets go ask police to do something that we are perfectly allowed to do" or this persons opinion?

Amazing.

[PhilDernerJr]

Jeff is right. Port Authority officials will tell you that they do not allow photo of airside from inside the terminals.

I knwo there are some inconsistencies there, but he is right.

Either way, he shared oneof his own experiences. He didn't lie and make up a rule. So why are you saiyng he's talking out his ass? And why the angry undertone?

[MarkLawrence]

I took some shots airside in terminal 6 last weekend waiting for my flight back to PBI and had absolutely no problems - in fact one PA policeman walked past, saw me and asked me some info about my camera...it does seem inconsistent.

[NIKV69]

Port Authority officials will tell you that they do not allow photo of airside from inside the terminals.

Is this a written law? Cause I just called PA and the officer told me their position is that you are allowed to take pics as long as you are not violating the TSA rules of aiming your camera at checkpoints. Giving your opinion is fine Phil, but I think fact go a little further when people ask for advice on matters like this.

[PhilDernerJr]

Jeff didn't give an opinion. He told a story of his first hand account. What part of his post are you claiming is bull?

As for the law, there doesn't have to be a "law". Port can institute any rule they want on their property. I spoke to a fairly high up Port official to told me directly that it is not allowed. As I said, there are inconsistencies.

IAT is also very strict about photography. I've seen them approach people with cmaeras that they found while looking at them through their security cameras.

[NIKV69]

What part of his post are you claiming is bull?

Never said any of this story was bull, I mean that when people ask for advice it's better to try to steer them toward something a little more concrete than what they think.

As for the law, there doesn't have to be a "law". Port can institute any rule they want on their property. I spoke to a fairly high up Port official to told me directly that it is not allowed. As I said, there are inconsistencies.

So what you are telling me is that one day someone like Mark can shoot till his heart is content and encounter a PA officer who does nothing and then at their whim they can tell someone else it's now allowed? Scary.. You should tell your high ranking pal that it's complete crap. I am glad people like the NPPA didn't back down when faced with this BS when the MTA tried to ban photography on the transit system. Glad to know there are some people out there that don't want their rights trampled.

[T-Bird76]

I'd like to see this rule in writing, because if you go to JFK's website there's a section that promotes taking pictures of the new and improved JFK. I took pictures inside T7 the night I was stuck there in full view of some PAPD cops and private security and no one said boo to me. Personally I don't believe there is a rule just whatever the person you are speaking to wants to tell you.

[NIKV69]

I'd like to see this rule in writing,

So would I.

I sent this kid on anet an email. I mean now he has two people telling him not to shoot now. Yet someone like Mark can shoot and actually converse with a PA officer with no problem? I thought we were supposed to promote spotting Phil? From what I have seen he or anybody does not need to ask any PA officer to shoot as long as he respects the TSA checkpoints. Yet the PA feels they can just not allow photography?

Also I love how Jeff decided to shoot anyway after the PA told him not too, real smart. First we ask for permission when he don't have to then disobey law enforcement. Outstanding.

[MarkLawrence]

I think the bottom line is that, regardless of where we are in the country, we are all at the mercy of the local law enforcement. It can happen anywhere - at the usually VERY friendly South Florida, I was asked to leave a spot alongside a l now closed restaurant. I was told that there was a place to take pictures further down the road - his exact words were "you are not allow to take pictures here". I didn't question anything as he was airside of the fence- but, on all the other occasions I have been in the same spot - I've had all types of police and people in FAA cars wave and say good afternoon. It takes one person's interpretation and, unfortunately, what side of the bed they woke up on that morning to determine what and where we can shoot.

[Winglets747]

I think said Jeff sharing his experience is fine--but it's that very experience that's causing an issue.

Since he asked whether it was okay to take pictures or not, he should have been willing to accept yes or no. But that was clearly not his intention since he took photos when told no. That type of behavior only creates more problems that could affect all of us (e.g. photography becomes much stricter).

Jeff should have either not asked or not taken photos when told no.

Since there is no consistent "rule" about terminal spotting, what I do when at JFK terminals is to just take photos as I please while keeping somewhat of a low profile with security agents.

On a related note, what, exactly, is IAT's issue with photography?

[T-Bird76]

I think said Jeff sharing his experience is fine--but it's that very experience that's causing an issue.

Since he asked whether it was okay to take pictures or not, he should have been willing to accept yes or no. But that was clearly not his intention since he took photos when told no. That type of behavior only creates more problems that could affect all of us (e.g. photography becomes much stricter).

Jeff should have either not asked or not taken photos when told no.

Since there is no consistent "rule" about terminal spotting, what I do when at JFK terminals is to just take photos as I please while keeping somewhat of a low profile with security agents.

On a related note, what, exactly, is IAT's issue with photography?

Exactly! Jeff was stupid to disobey an order from a uniformed police officer. I was told at ISP once I couldn't but pushed a bit and then was told yes I could. If the answer was still no I wouldn't have taken any shots. That kind of behavior is stupid.

[PhilDernerJr]

Never said any of this story was bull, I mean that when people ask for advice it's better to try to steer them toward something a little more concrete than what they think.

Seriously, do you read? Jeff didn't say ANY thoughts. There was no "what he thinks". All he did was share his actual account. Just because you think that what he says is inconsistent with the reality (even though it isn't) doesn't mean that you should sya he's talking out of his ass.

I mean now he has two people telling him not to shoot now. Yet someone like Mark can shoot and actually converse with a PA officer with no problem?

The guy asked a question and him and I answered it based on our experiences. What's wrong with that? What do you expect?

I thought we were supposed to promote spotting Phil?

Wow. He asked a question and we answered it with the knowledge that we have. It's not not promoting. It's letting the kid know what the situation.

Don't patronize me, either. You're the one that says you don't think the hobby needs promoting.

Also I love how Jeff decided to shoot anyway after the PA told him not too, real smart. First we ask for permission when he don't have to then disobey law enforcement. Outstanding.

I agree that disobeying an order from law enforcement is wrong, but I think that going by your views about the rule, that you would have shot there anyway.

I am banned on anet .....

Big shock.

[NIKV69]

Seriously, do you read? Jeff didn't say ANY thoughts. There was no "what he thinks". All he did was share his actual account. Just because you think that what he says is inconsistent with the reality (even though it isn't) doesn't mean that you should sya he's talking out of his ass.

Well I kind of don't understand any of this but I will say that I meant that his ignorance of the actual rules (ones you say has inconsistenties) was not what he should have been telling this new spotter to the area.

What do you expect

I expect someone to get a little more information. The fact remains that this kid was basically told you can't shoot in the terminal and that is complete BS.

Wow. He asked a question and we answered it with the knowledge that we have

You sure you gave him all the info Phil? I would say not.

Don't patronize me, either. You're the one that says you don't think the hobby needs promoting

I am not patronizing you and the hobby does not need any promoting at all.

I agree that disobeying an order from law enforcement is wrong, but I think that going by your views about the rule, that you would have shot there anyway

Jeff is a complete fool, first why he asked before is beyond me, that is something advocated here and I think it's crap. There is no law against shooting in the terminal as long as you don't point the camera toward a TSA checkpoint. For the PA to have "selected laws" they choose to somehow enforce (which I think is BS anyway) is beyond me. Jeff clearly had no intention to listening to anyone, which he proved. My only regret is that he didn't get thrown in jail, which is what should have happened. As far as me, I have shot in the terminal Phil and I did not ask, I don't have to, I am doing nothing wrong.

Big shock

Low blows now Phil? I'll play, I am banned because I refuse to listen to people post inaccurate stuff and continue to talk out of their asses. Which happens quite a bit, even here.

[FlightShadow]

Hey everyone, it's "The Kid" from A.net. (Thanks for the quick account activation, btw)

As of right now I'm thoroughly confused. Phil says it's illegal, Mark says he had no problems, Nik says Jeff Miller talks out of his butt and it's perfectly fine.

Taking all these into consideration, my plan is: Pull out my camera (I have a high-end P&S, not too suspiscious) if I see something cool (like a Thai A340!), snap a few pics, put it away, and try and keep somewhat of a low profile in the process.

What is the worst that can happen - will I be detained (fingerprinted, interviewed,?) or will they just say "stop and/or delete them," in which case I would cheerfullly comply and be able to go on my way?

Thanks for all the help :)

-Jeff

[MarkLawrence]

Welcome Jeff

My personal feeling - go for it - if PA don't like it - they will tell you to stop - that's all - that's my feeling.