JeffM talking out of his rear end about JFK terminal

[NIKV69]

Welcome Jeff,

I whould shoot away Jeff, just stay away from the TSA checkpoints and don't try to hide anything. Your doing nothing wrong. Also don't feel the need to be like Jeff and ask permission beforehand, it is not necessary. Just act like you normally would and I doubt you will have any problems.

[PhilDernerJr]

Well I kind of don't understand any of this but I will say that I meant that his ignorance of the actual rules (ones you say has inconsistenties) was not what he should have been telling this new spotter to the area.

If it's the rules as he knows it, then that's fine. If you feel there's more, you can get unbanned and contribute instead of calling Jeff names and cursing about it on another site.

I expect someone to get a little more information. The fact remains that this kid was basically told you can't shoot in the terminal and that is complete BS.

No, it's not BS. It's what they say the rule is. If you have a problem with the rule or the inconsistency with Port, that's fine, but it's not Jeff's fault that Port Police is inconsistent.

You sure you gave him all the info Phil? I would say not.

I gave him all the info as I know it. I'd rather someone go in knowing of the potential risks instead of being told everything is fine and dandy and he ends up in a bad situation because he thought it was all ok.

Jeff is a complete fool, first why he asked before is beyond me, that is something advocated here and I think it's crap. There is no law against shooting in the terminal as long as you don't point the camera toward a TSA checkpoint. For the PA to have "selected laws" they choose to somehow enforce (which I think is BS anyway) is beyond me. ....I have shot in the terminal Phil and I did not ask, I don't have to, I am doing nothing wrong.

If a rule exists or not, Port does have the ability to make a rule banning photography if they want. It doesn't have to be a "law" either.

I agree, as I siad, there are inconsistencies, but some Port officials say that there is a rule prohibitng photography.

I don't know of any Port rulebook to check this in, but I'm just saying what we've experienced.

Low blows now Phil? I'll play, I am banned because I refuse to listen to people post inaccurate stuff and continue to talk out of their asses.

Emphasis on "refusing to listen". I think you have a tendency to not consider what other people are telling you.

A guy shares a story and you attack him, saying he gave wrong information. He didn't give out any "information". He told a story. So unless he's lying about the story, it sin't evne possible for him to be talking out his ass. Do you understand that? I explained it three times and you're not really acknowledging or even trying to comprehend what I'm saying.

If you think he's a fool for disobeying the cops, that's one thing, and your right to an opinion. But there'ws no informaiton in his post that could be misinformation.

Which happens quite a bit, even here.

Happens everywhere, my friend.

[mirrodie]

well.

I don't know the gentlemen to call him a fool. But I must say he was foolish to ask for permission and then disobey after being told no. I think that type of behavior gives photographers a bad name in general.

[T-Bird76]

As of right now I'm thoroughly confused. Phil says it's illegal, Mark says he had no problems, Nik says Jeff Miller talks out of his butt and it's perfectly fine.

Its not illegal at all. There is no law what so ever saying you can't take pictures in a terminal. Whether or not there's some Port rule about it is to be seen as well. However Jeff it was a stupid decision to disobey an order from a uniformed police officer in a secured location. The worst that can happen is you get arrested for disobeying a police order, you get booked, your camera gets taken away and you have to appear in-front of a judge. If you don't believe me ask John Toomey if he ever got his camera back.

[FlightShadow]

Thanks for the replies everyone :) - Like I said before I think I'm just going to take pictures anyway, and stop if the police ask me to, regardless of whether there's a law or not (we have that problem here in SLC every now and then, SLPD Cops citing fake laws).

However Jeff it was a stupid decision to disobey an order from a uniformed police officer in a secured location.

I can't tell what you mean by this but just for the record, me and the Jeff that disobeyed the cop are different people - that Jeff is JeffM from A.net, who allegedly talks out of his butt. I have this weird fear of being arrested and usually obey cops :)

And another question, what's my best chance at getting a Thai A340 - will it be there in the morning (between 0600 and 0900?) - I just love their color scheme.

[T-Bird76]

Thanks for the replies everyone :) - Like I said before I think I'm just going to take pictures anyway, and stop if the police ask me to, regardless of whether there's a law or not (we have that problem here in SLC every now and then, SLPD Cops citing fake laws).

However Jeff it was a stupid decision to disobey an order from a uniformed police officer in a secured location.

I can't tell what you mean by this but just for the record, me and the Jeff that disobeyed the cop are different people - that Jeff is JeffM from A.net, who allegedly talks out of his butt. I have this weird fear of being arrested and usually obey cops :)

And another question, what's my best chance at getting a Thai A340 - will it be there in the morning (between 0600 and 0900?) - I just love their color scheme.

Ok now I'm confused, LOL The Thai should be there during that time period.

[FlightShadow]

Ok here goes :P

This thread involves 2 "Jeff"s. One of them is me, FlightShadow, the kid who wants to know if it's ok to take pics in JFK, one of them is "JeffM" from A.net.

I started this thread on A.net, after reading some stories about problems taking pictures in JFK, as I'll be there in a week and a half and would love to snap some shots of planes we'll never have the chance of seeing out here in SLC.

Now, in that thread, JeffM, posted this:

Last time I was there, I asked security, they said NO. I opted to shoot anyway.....the police arrived, needless to say I stopped.

That is where most of the discussion is from, and that is the Jeff that Nik says has his head up his butt.

That's probably just more confusing...but it might help a little :)

[NIKV69]

If a rule exists or not, Port does have the ability to make a rule banning photography if they want. It doesn't have to be a "law" either.

I agree, as I siad, there are inconsistencies, but some Port officials say that there is a rule prohibitng photography.

I don't know of any Port rulebook to check this in, but I'm just saying what we've experienced

Phil any Law enforcement can do anything at any time. That is a given but when a person asks about something I feel it is better to give him the facts, which is what we have discussed. That there is no law on the books prohibiting photography in the terminals but PA can at any time tell you not too. Not even getting into that I would say that the way you and Jeff approached it totally put this person off even taking out his camera and I feel that is wrong. Whatever Jeff did is neither here nor there. Personally I think his story is a little weird but I will take it at face value. I personally feel many encounter stories are not totally true and lack certain facts. The encounters I have had and the one tonight when I called were totally different. I would also hope that the PA would have a very good reason to arbitrarily ban picture taking in a said spot but that is something they could only answer. There has to be a balance between our rights and the safety of air travel. I just don't want to see it tip against us.

[Winglets747]

Thanks for the replies everyone :) - Like I said before I think I'm just going to take pictures anyway, and stop if the police ask me to, regardless of whether there's a law or not (we have that problem here in SLC every now and then, SLPD Cops citing fake laws).

Good plan. It may also help to stay under the radar.

And another question, what's my best chance at getting a Thai A340 - will it be there in the morning (between 0600 and 0900?) - I just love their color scheme.

Thai is there in the morning, but I'm not sure of the exact time (there was a thread recently in one of the other forums).

I've found that Thai usually parks at gate B20 or B22 (http://www.jfk-airport.org/images/jfktermmap.gif) at T4. You can get a nice view of those gates on the AirTrain between terminals 2/3 and 4. The AirTrain between terminals is free, by the way. A lot of times there are security agents on the AirTrain, so if you want to take photos but you see a security agent, you may want to hold off until the next AirTrain just to be safe.

[Matt Molnar]

Terminals = private property = there doesn't need to be any law or a "rule on the books."

[T-Bird76]

Terminals = private property = there doesn't need to be any law or a "rule on the books."

Matt entirely not true, not all terminals are private property. Many airports around the country that are owned and operated by the township they reside in are considered "Public Property." Whether or not you want to consider Port a private organization is up for debate, they do receive public funds.

[hiss srq]

I was about to mention that Tommy. In Sarasota they kicked friends of mine out spotting once and they were on the perimiter of the airport behind a fence next to a road. I thought that was pretty stupid. I have also found that offering an 8x10 print to the airport in question or somthing does alot to help the issue. SRQ has several to speak of in the Suncom room.

[Matt Molnar]

Terminals = private property = there doesn't need to be any law or a "rule on the books."

Matt entirely not true, not all terminals are private property. Many airports around the country that are owned and operated by the township they reside in are considered "Public Property." Whether or not you want to consider Port a private organization is up for debate, they do receive public funds.

I meant Port Authority terminals. The PA is entirely self-sufficient and does not receive any government funding.

[T-Bird76]

Terminals = private property = there doesn't need to be any law or a "rule on the books."

Matt entirely not true, not all terminals are private property. Many airports around the country that are owned and operated by the township they reside in are considered "Public Property." Whether or not you want to consider Port a private organization is up for debate, they do receive public funds.

I meant Port Authority terminals. The PA is entirely self-sufficient and does not receive any government funding.

I'm not sure that is accurate, funds for the improvements to handle the A380 were supported with pubic funds.

[moose135]

http://www.panynj.gov/AboutthePortAuthority/Governance/

The Port Authority is a financially self-supporting public agency that receives no tax revenues from any state or local jurisdiction and has no power to tax. It relies almost entirely on revenues generated by facility users, tolls, fees, and rents. The Governor of each state appoints six members to the Board of Commissioners, subject to state senate approval. Board Members serve as public officials without pay for overlapping six-year terms. The Governors retain the right to veto the actions of Commissioners from his or her own state. Board meetings are public.