Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Was 9/11 really that bad?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The weather sucks in Seattle
    Posts
    4,899

    Was 9/11 really that bad?

    Was 9/11 really that bad?
    The attacks were a horrible act of mass murder, but history says we're overreacting.
    By David A. Bell
    January 28, 2007


    IMAGINE THAT on 9/11, six hours after the assault on the twin towers and the Pentagon, terrorists had carried out a second wave of attacks on the United States, taking an additional 3,000 lives.

    Imagine that six hours after that, there had been yet another wave. Now imagine that the attacks had continued, every six hours, for another four years, until nearly 20 million Americans were dead. This is roughly what the Soviet Union suffered during World War II, and contemplating these numbers may help put in perspective what the United States has so far experienced during the war against terrorism.

    It also raises several questions. Has the American reaction to the attacks in fact been a massive overreaction? Is the widespread belief that 9/11 plunged us into one of the deadliest struggles of our time simply wrong? If we did overreact, why did we do so? Does history provide any insight?

    Certainly, if we look at nothing but our enemies' objectives, it is hard to see any indication of an overreaction. The people who attacked us in 2001 are indeed hate-filled fanatics who would like nothing better than to destroy this country. But desire is not the same thing as capacity, and although Islamist extremists can certainly do huge amounts of harm around the world, it is quite different to suggest that they can threaten the existence of the United States.

    Yet a great many Americans, particularly on the right, have failed to make this distinction. For them, the "Islamo-fascist" enemy has inherited not just Adolf Hitler's implacable hatreds but his capacity to destroy. The conservative author Norman Podhoretz has gone so far as to say that we are fighting World War IV (No. III being the Cold War).

    But it is no disrespect to the victims of 9/11, or to the men and women of our armed forces, to say that, by the standards of past wars, the war against terrorism has so far inflicted a very small human cost on the United States. As an instance of mass murder, the attacks were unspeakable, but they still pale in comparison with any number of military assaults on civilian targets of the recent past, from Hiroshima on down.

    Even if one counts our dead in Iraq and Afghanistan as casualties of the war against terrorism, which brings us to about 6,500, we should remember that roughly the same number of Americans die every two months in automobile accidents.

    Of course, the 9/11 attacks also conjured up the possibility of far deadlier attacks to come. But then, we were hardly ignorant of these threats before, as a glance at just about any thriller from the 1990s will testify. And despite the even more nightmarish fantasies of the post-9/11 era (e.g. the TV show "24's" nuclear attack on Los Angeles), Islamist terrorists have not come close to deploying weapons other than knives, guns and conventional explosives. A war it may be, but does it really deserve comparison to World War II and its 50 million dead? Not every adversary is an apocalyptic threat.

    So why has there been such an overreaction? Unfortunately, the commentators who detect one have generally explained it in a tired, predictably ideological way: calling the United States a uniquely paranoid aggressor that always overreacts to provocation.

    In a recent book, for instance, political scientist John Mueller evaluated the threat that terrorists pose to the United States and convincingly concluded that it has been, to quote his title, "Overblown." But he undercut his own argument by adding that the United States has overreacted to every threat in its recent history, including even Pearl Harbor (rather than trying to defeat Japan, he argued, we should have tried containment!).

    Seeing international conflict in apocalyptic terms — viewing every threat as existential — is hardly a uniquely American habit. To a certain degree, it is a universal human one. But it is also, more specifically, a Western one, which paradoxically has its origins in one of the most optimistic periods of human history: the 18th century Enlightenment.

    Until this period, most people in the West took warfare for granted as an utterly unavoidable part of the social order. Western states fought constantly and devoted most of their disposable resources to this purpose; during the 1700s, no more than six or seven years passed without at least one major European power at war.

    The Enlightenment, however, popularized the notion that war was a barbaric relic of mankind's infancy, an anachronism that should soon vanish from the Earth. Human societies, wrote the influential thinkers of the time, followed a common path of historical evolution from savage beginnings toward ever-greater levels of peaceful civilization, politeness and commercial exchange.

    The unexpected consequence of this change was that those who considered themselves "enlightened," but who still thought they needed to go to war, found it hard to justify war as anything other than an apocalyptic struggle for survival against an irredeemably evil enemy. In such struggles, of course, there could be no reason to practice restraint or to treat the enemy as an honorable opponent.

    Ever since, the enlightened dream of perpetual peace and the nightmare of modern total war have been bound closely to each other in the West. Precisely when the Enlightenment hopes glowed most brightly, wars often took on an especially hideous character.

    The Enlightenment was followed by the French Revolution and the Napoleonic wars, which touched every European state, sparked vicious guerrilla conflicts across the Continent and killed millions (including, probably, a higher proportion of young Frenchmen than died from 1914 to 1918).

    During the hopeful early years of the 20th century, journalist Norman Angell's huge bestseller, "The Great Illusion," argued that wars had become too expensive to fight. Then came the unspeakable horrors of World War I. And the end of the Cold War, which seemed to promise the worldwide triumph of peace and democracy in a more stable unipolar world, has been followed by the wars in the Balkans, the Persian Gulf War and the present global upheaval. In each of these conflicts, the United States has justified the use of force by labeling its foe a new Hitler, not only in evil intentions but in potential capacity.

    Yet as the comparison with the Soviet experience should remind us, the war against terrorism has not yet been much of a war at all, let alone a war to end all wars. It is a messy, difficult, long-term struggle against exceptionally dangerous criminals who actually like nothing better than being put on the same level of historical importance as Hitler — can you imagine a better recruiting tool? To fight them effectively, we need coolness, resolve and stamina. But we also need to overcome long habit and remind ourselves that not every enemy is in fact a threat to our existence.

    David A. Bell, a professor of history at Johns Hopkins University and a contributing editor for the New Republic, is the author of "The First Total War: Napoleon's Europe and the Birth of Warfare as We Know It."
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

  2. #2
    Moderator Matt Molnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    9,302
    I've considered this possibility before, and concluded it was false.

    I don't think anyone has ever asked: "Was Pearl Harbor really that bad?" Sure, this enemy is nothing like Japan: They don't have a traditional army, or even a state. But they are extremely well financed, they are growing quickly in size and influence, they are willing to die for their cause, and they think God is telling them what to do, which is something that all the diplomacy in the world cannot reason with.

    9/11 was the first battle of the war for the survival of Western Civilization. Sure, in the grand scheme of things, 3,000 is not a huge death toll. Many times more deaths occurred on single days of World Wars I and II, and the Civil War. But our reaction was hardly overblown given the long term possibilities that 9/11 made obvious: that there are men within our borders willing to die in the process of killing as many of us as possible, and that they will not hesitate to use the most deadly weapon available to them. Had a nuclear warhead been available to them in 2001, they would not have hesitated to use it. It's only a matter of time before they get that opportunity.
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
    All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
    I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9

  3. #3
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    8,067
    I'm not sure I agree with the answer given to the question "Was 9/11 that bad?" given the comparisons the article cites, but I'm not entirely sure we're asking the right questions.

    While not belittling the event, I think "the first battle of the war for survival of Western Civilization" is a little overblown. Aside from the scale, how was 9/11 so much different from the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh was allied with groups that wish to overthrow the US government and the bombing was, in his mind, a strike against that government. How about we go round up all those Neo-Nazi, white supremacist group members living within our borders?

    Yes, the 9/11 attacks were terrible, and living here in New York made them strike home in a way most of us hadn't experienced before. But we are hardly the first country to experience acts of terrorism. Just ask anyone living in England or Northern Ireland if you want to see what that experience is like.

    Some of you may know that I've been a huge fan of the TV show "The West Wing". Following 9/11, they did a special episode to try to deal with the acts of that day. In it, a group of high school students touring the White House are caught in a lock-down due to a terrorism warning, which leads to a discussion about the nature and motivations of terrorism. One student asks the question "Well, what do you call a society that has to just live everyday with the idea that the pizza place you're eating in can just blow up without any warning?" The answer "Israel".

    We were hardly the first, and certainly not the last, to experience this type of attack. As long as there are groups willing to resort to violence to advance a cause, we will be faced with these types of acts, whether in the guise of Islamic fanaticism, racial oppression or political tyranny.

    The problem with a "War on Terror" is that "terrorism" is a tactic used by various groups to bring about a result. It's like saying we are going to have a "War on Grenade Launchers", treating the symptoms of the problem, not the root causes that are leading some to take these actions.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    8,285
    Well IMO the first attack of this new war was TWA 800 but that another post in itself. 9/11 was more then losing 3000 fellow Americans. It was an attack on each one of us and out way of life. It was an attack of a nation of 500 million. Our reaction was not overblown and in-fact was to timid, we should have gone after our enemy with even a great passion for destroying them.

  5. #5
    Senior Member moose135's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    8,067
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Our reaction was not overblown and in-fact was to timid, we should have gone after our enemy with even a great passion for destroying them.
    We started to do that, but lost our way in Iraq.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    8,285
    Quote Originally Posted by moose135
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Our reaction was not overblown and in-fact was to timid, we should have gone after our enemy with even a great passion for destroying them.
    We started to do that, but lost our way in Iraq.
    I agree, however I think we might have a renewed fight in us now. It seems we aren't going to take **** in Iraq and take a strong hand with Iran.

  7. #7
    Senior Member emshighway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Middle Village
    Posts
    2,060
    When you lose a few dozen friends and co-workers and spend days, weeks, months digging for them, yea it really was that bad.
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
    Ronald Reagan

  8. #8
    Senior Member hiss srq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Around here and near there.
    Posts
    5,565
    It was that bad. This is America. Or so the mindset goes. We have always taken a much stronger stance on attack of our homefront. I think that we are defineately doing the right things and we were initially too timid. I am pretty sure that most of us for a while though that it might be a good idea to make a glow in the dark sandbox of what is now known as the middle east region after the events of 9/11. I was all for it. But in reality this happens everyplace in the world. It was not the first but I hope the last.
    Southwest Airlines-"Once it pop's it's time to stop" Southwest Airlines-"Our Shamu's are almost real" Southwest Airlines -"We blow our top real easy" Southwest Airlines- "You can't top us..... really"

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •