Recommendation: Do Not Visit Costco Until Further Notice

[PhilDernerJr]

After now hearing about two separate incidents that occurred in Costco's parking lot involving n employee telling spotters that the new store manager does not want them there and there they will call the police on us, I am trongly recommending that local spotters do not employ that location for photography.

Doing so would draw unnecessary attention and potentially negative publicity to our group. Not to mention that if the store manager really want to, he/she can probably press charges for tresspassing.

Thankfully, we do have several other options in that area to observe 31R arrivals. I urge you folks to use them instead.

This is unfortunate but expected to happen here and there. Perhaps thigns might turn for the better in the future.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[NIKV69]

Phil this is good advice but I think we need to define the term "our group" I never mind shooting with you or some of the other guys but I never really liked the idea of being grouped together. As spotters and photographers we also like to enjoy this hobby our own way (sound familiar?) I as all here applaud your efforts in our hobby but you have to remember that we are all individuals and some like to spot that way. I am not saying that I am going to go park in Costco and shoot away today but I am going to be in contact with Mike and see how things play out and act accordingly. I would hope that everyone here from the newbies and veterans act the same way. I just don't like the idea of one person being responsible for the actions of all spotters in this area.

[PhilDernerJr]

I completely agree with you, Nick. As for the definition of "our group", I'm referncing either the site or the hobby or whomever practices the hobby locally. All I'm saying here is that it's just my own personal recommendation that no one goes there to play it safe.

If someone still wants to go there, then that's fine. However, the negative ramifications that one person experiences if they go there and something bad happens, might also be negative for the group as a whole....making us look bad, causing more strict rules to be placed that prevent us from enjoying our hobby, etc.

If you're implying that I am responsible for the actions of all spotters in the area, I certainly don't mean to come across this way. That is why I titled the thread "recommendation". I can only run my site. I don't own or run the hobby, and all I can do is urge people to do what I think is best for the hobby....they are more than welcome to do or practice the hobby however they please.

I also don't know if this new "rule" at Costco is because of a spotter that did somethign wrong, a new manager that doesn't know enough about the hobby and doesn't want us there, maybe just an employee that is lying to us about a new manager's rules or what. Who knows if they are also barring the fisherman from being there in the same spot, too. Maybe with the holidays, we were taking up valuable parking spaces. Who knows. I just hope that no one here jumps to any conclusions yet.

Again, my original post is just my own personal recommendation and hope that people understnad, agree with and follow. No one is bound to it.

[NIKV69]

I also don't know if this new "rule" at Costco is because of a spotter that did somethign wrong, a new manager that doesn't know enough about the hobby and doesn't want us there, maybe just an employee that is lying to us about a new manager's rules or what. Who knows if they are also barring the fisherman from being there in the same spot, too. Maybe with the holidays, we were taking up valuable parking spaces. Who knows. I just hope that no one here jumps to any conclusions yet.

It may as well be that some person who couldn't find a spot complained. I have faith in Mike. If he speaks to this person we should be fine. I actually don't like being there on the weekends, it's too busy and this usually happens. I much rather like it early week when I am the only one parked there and there is nothing in the way and not much going on. I am glad Mike has some insight to this. We should get some facts soon and maybe if we don't interfere with the patrons there we will be fine.

[sluger020889]

I was their on Sat with Idle, Josh, Ryan, Mike and a few others when we were told the new manager didn't want us there. I was all set to talk the manager and see what was up but figured, as an out of towner, it was better left up to the locals to handle the situation. We didn't shoot to much after that as the light was getting bad. I hope all this gets sorted out though...it would be a shame to loose such a great spot.

[SCOTYDEMCO]

It's the weekend, and the week before Christmas. The lot was packed today. Unfortunatly it's always worse to go in groups. Much more fun, but brings more attention in groups. Today was a great day, but we had to problem slove a bit. I agree with Phil and was going to post this myself. Lay low with going to Costco, give it some time after the holidays. They want the spots for customers.

[Mellyrose]

I agree with this entirely. I think that it's almost justified for the manager to feel this way. First of all, he's new at this location and is not at all familiar with our hobby and what role "his" parking lot plays in it. Even if he was though, the weekends before Christmas get pretty rowdy at stores like that and I can understand why he'd want as little "chaos" as possible in the lot.

I don't like this news any more than the rest of you, but we have a better chance of being able to one day be welcome there if we respect the request for now.

[T-Bird76]

I'm very curious to see if he takes the same attitude with the fisherman that are always there. If anyone is in the area they should see if the fisherman remain.

[emshighway]

I think some are jumping to conclusions. This is the busiest time of the year and the manager is new so he has enough on his plate. Instead of pushing the subject and trying to claim discrimination, why not back off, let the season pass. Then request a meeting and approach it as professionals.

If you need my assistance feel free to ask.

[NIKV69]

I'm very curious to see if he takes the same attitude with the fisherman that are always there. If anyone is in the area they should see if the fisherman remain.

This is a great point. Something to consider for the future but for now let's let the Holiday run it's course. Plenty of other spots to shoot 31R.

I think some are jumping to conclusions. This is the busiest time of the year and the manager is new so he has enough on his plate. Instead of pushing the subject and trying to claim discrimination, why not back off, let the season pass. Then request a meeting and approach it as professionals.

If you need my assistance feel free to ask.

Thanks but Mike M is already on this. He is a veteran and very respected and he has an inside connection. Believe me he will do the right thing. I think it is best the rest of us not even speak to anyone at Costco.

I would like to hear from Steven Holzinger, rumor has it he may have had a run-in there today. I hope it went well. Also shows the importance to keep up on the events. We didn't need anymore drama.

[hiss srq]

Kind of depressing that a staple spot for us may be headdedto the way side for now lets hope Magic Mike has it taken care of.

[Steven Holzinger]

Okay, time for me to chime in... let me set the stage for a minute.

The reason why this thread is here is all because of me. I, my friend Andrew (http://www.flyawayphotos.com), his dad (who were nice enough to give me a ride up, since Andrew really wanted to see Kennedy after going to PHL endless times...and he lives in South Jersey, like me), and my friend Chris (http://www.semperapollo.com) - all of which have never spotted at Kennedy, got together and spent the first hour or so at Howard Beach before making our way to Costco. I had met up with Andy at Howard Beach before we all caravaned over to Costco.

We all arrived at Costco around 11:25 am and were there for a good thirty minutes before an employee came out (he didn't wear anything to show he worked there...at least if you saw him for half a second) and told me, Chris, and Andy (Andrew and his dad were maybe 10 feet away from me) that we had to leave because the new manager did not want us there. Andrew's dad was furious, considering him and his dad (and his mom) were at Ikea no less than two weeks ago, Andrew was taking pictures and the rent-a-cops there gave Andrew and his mom a real hard time and really upset her, which led to his dad carrying phone numbers for TSA and the FAA to back up that the hobby wasn't anything illegal (bad idea, in my opinion). Anyways, the employee told us to speak to the store manager, ADAM. We went in the store, waited for what seemed like at least ten minutes for ADAM, to find out he wasn't in, so we spoke to DAN, an assistant manager. Andrew's dad did most of the talking and I was somewhat outside of the realm of the conversation for the most part but it seemed like at first DAN was taking the side that ADAM wanted. Then, Andrew's dad flashed out a business card - he works for a vendor who supplies Costco with canned food and it seemed like Dan's demeanor took a complete 180. From what I gathered (Andy please correct me if I'm wrong, considering you heard a lot more of the conversation than I did and I was maybe eight feet away inside a loud Costco), it seemed like DAN did not mind us being there but he did want to have to deal with the NCPD. I think it might have also had to deal with Andrew's dad saying he will never shop at Costco.

We ended up leaving Costco (Andy also left as we were changing spots) around 12:45 and drove to Brookville. Bad idea - there's a lot of construction going on back there, so I decided that we hit up Burger King. We got food there and it was also around that time that Scott (ScotyDemco) showed up. We asked the manager who was on duty at BK about what we were doing and he had absolutely no problem with it. In fact, he asked Chris and I about how we specialize in video and even mentioned a project one of his friends did, which was pretty cool. We each gave him a business card, including one from Andrew, and stayed at BK until 3:50. My friend Dan showed up around 2:30 and hung out with us until the very end as well.

I ended up heading home with Chris and when 3:50 came around, JFK had already switched to the 22s. I showed Chris the mounds and decided against filming and shooting there since there was a soccer game going on at the same time, and decided to finish as much more shooting as possible at the park off Brookville (what is the name of that park?). No problems there at all. Chris, Dan, and I ended up staying there until about 5.

I'm very skeptical about this Adam guy... and I would side with Phil and say that we shouldn't spot at Costco, at least until we get this all figured out. It's weird how this is the first time I've had a problem at ANY of the spots but at the same time I think it was a nice head's up from that employee because I was not ready to deal with NCPD cops (I had gotten arrested in New Brunswick for having an open container of alcohol... which was complete toro because it was my friend who had the open container and I was walking a good fifteen feet behind him - luckily for me the arrest was thrown off my record after they realized their mistake).

And that's what happened...

EDIT: Habitat for Humanity came in on 31L... :-(

[mikephotos]

This sounds like a big mess but I'll see what I can do from my end. I know Dan, nice guy (if we're talking about the same Dan). I am not saying what anyone should do (stop going there or whatever), it's not my place to do so. I would however suggest that you try to keep low-key for a while but again, that's only a suggestion. I'll speak to my brother-in-law tomorrow and get the scoop on where we're at from this point.

If anyone can think of add'l "points" that would be a positive for allowing us to stay without hassle, list them. If I (we) can show that it actually might be a benefit rather than a hassle for us to continue shooting there it would certainly make it easier with the new mgr. I'm not worried about the Nassau PD part, they really no ground to remove us (ask to leave) if we've been given the "okay" by Costco.

Mike

[PhilDernerJr]

Sounds great, Mike. I think we are all in agreement that we should ease back on Costco usage until this is cleared up.

As for some points I'd mention:

- Many of us spotters are card-carrying Costco members

- Our presence can help either thwart, prevent or document any crimes, suspicious activity or disturbes that happen in the parking lot (other than us! haha)

- Planes are the uber roxor!!1!1!!!1!!! OMFBBBQ!!1!

Please keep us posted, Mike. Thanks so much for helping us out. I'd hate to hear of someone having a tough time with the law or something causing the spot to be ruined for good.

[Iberia A340-600]

Even if 31's aren't in use today I'll drive by Costco to see if I see any fisherman.