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Thread: Election Day Madness!

  1. #16
    Senior Member RDU-JFK's Avatar
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    Yes, the term carpetbagger has originally referred to the northern presence in the south, but the term has been adopted to what I intended it to be used for.

    According to M-W Dictionary:
    Etymology: from their carrying all their belongings in carpetbags
    1 : a Northerner in the South after the American Civil War usually seeking private gain under the reconstruction governments
    2 : OUTSIDER; especially : a nonresident or new resident who seeks private gain from an area often by meddling in its business or politics


    This second definition is what I was referring to, and absolutely applies to Clinton. It is perfectly acceptable and very appropriate. I think I know the definition of the word.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    1. Just as you say, the state has always been split. With her being an upstate Senator, her interests are not generally in the best of mine. Therefore, I have little interest in voting for her.

    2. Even with her being a "successful lawyer" and having political aspirations, he wouldn't have been able to become NY Senator without the status of her husband. There are thousands of people that are lawyer who want political office, and the chances of her making the pros would have been as tough as that of any of them if she didn't barnacle on the hull SS Bill Clinton.

    3. ULTIMATELY, in the end, I don't even care about any of that stuff if she does a good job. And, as I said in my first post which apparently went ignored, it's going to take more than just a couple years of pleasing upstate farmers and skiers to earn my vote.

    Maybe in 6 more years.
    Point 1. So am I to understand that even if she is more focused on upstate NY and responds to the needs of upstate NY you would vote for someone who is unproven? John Spencer hasn't at all proven himself, why put someone in office that is unproven. Remember this is one state, NYC and Long Island have for far to long supported upstate, if she is working for upstaters and helping to move those cities forward to be less dependant on us isn't that in your best interest?

    Point 2. Again I'll raise the question what is the problem with her riding Bill's coat tails? Honestly I think without her he wouldn't have been President. That was a marriage of convenience; they both had ambitions of greatness and needed each other. If their ambition is to serve the people of this country without an altier motive then go for it. There will always be people in this country who have the connections they need to accomplish what they want.

    Point 3. Your contradicting yourself, you care if she does a good job but the opinions of other New Yorkers who feel she is doing a good job don't matter or are somewhat less then your opinion? This also goes back to point one, if she is helping upstate New York become less dependant on down state then that lessens the burden on us hence she is doing a good job for the entire state.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDU-JFK
    Yes, the term carpetbagger has originally referred to the northern presence in the south, but the term has been adopted to what I intended it to be used for.

    According to M-W Dictionary:
    Etymology: from their carrying all their belongings in carpetbags
    1 : a Northerner in the South after the American Civil War usually seeking private gain under the reconstruction governments
    2 : OUTSIDER; especially : a nonresident or new resident who seeks private gain from an area often by meddling in its business or politics


    This second definition is what I was referring to, and absolutely applies to Clinton. It is perfectly acceptable and very appropriate. I think I know the definition of the word.
    How did she "meddle" in NY's affairs? She legally ran for office, legally became a citizen of NY, and legally won the election. Am I to assume you would like some law stating a citizen can't run for office if they aren't a resident of that state for some period of time? That is absolutely ludicrous and beyond belief. She in no way disrupted the flow of gov't here in the state. Like I said before if you disagree with her beliefs that fine, I don't support all her beliefs but the carpetbagger platform is just without strength.

  4. #19
    Senior Member RDU-JFK's Avatar
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    I find it quite hard for a senator to lobby for people in a state where she has only lived for a certain number of years. You think she knows what its like for her kids to attend school in New York and take the Regents Exams, or other educational concerns? You think she's grown up to see firsthand how the economic structure of the state has changed? She doesn't know enough about New York just from buying a house and living here the past few years.

    What if the mayor of French Lick, Indiana ran for and won the mayoral job of NYC? It's absurd! You have to truly know about a state, its people and its issues and history. Mind you, Bloomy was a native Bostonian but he dealt with and lived in NYC for many years. Yet the liberals used THE SAME carpetbagger argument that I used against Bloomberg, just for him being born in Boston. Being a mayor's different than a senator, but the principle is there. I hate Schumer, but at least he's a New Yorker and represents the people as a New Yorker. Both upstaters and city dwellers can relate to the things he has experienced.
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  5. #20
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    *yawn*

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Point 1. So am I to understand that even if she is more focused on upstate NY and responds to the needs of upstate NY you would vote for someone who is unproven?
    No, I wouldn't vote for someone who is unproven to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    John Spencer hasn't at all proven himself, why put someone in office that is unproven.
    I'm no fan of him either.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Remember this is one state, NYC and Long Island have for far to long supported upstate, if she is working for upstaters and helping to move those cities forward to be less dependant on us isn't that in your best interest?
    You'd have to be more specific with her proposed legislation that helps upstaters enough to relieve us of our support for them. She cna respond to constituents' letters about downed trees and migrating coyotes all day, but until Albany or Smalltown in Lawrence County develops and builds a population of 8 million, New York City will always support upstate NY, just as any major city supports the rest of their state.

    That being said, I have no issue with upstate NY. But their interests are different than mine, and those who are serving their needs are probably not serving mine.

    Besides, I'm looking for someone to represent me, not someone to represent someone else, get them out of my hair, and still let me unrepresented with the problems that I am facing in my town, borough, city and nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Again I'll raise the question what is the problem with her riding Bill's coat tails?
    My issue with it is that it sets a bad exmaple when the feminist community says that her behavior is worth idolizing. Her motto should be "Stand by your man even if he cheats....because it will help your career."

    The part that bothers me are the people who vote for her just because she is a woman, which is as sexist as anything that those feminists accuse others of. She is hardly the role model for women for the reasons that I mentioned earlier and more.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Honestly I think without her he wouldn't have been President.
    Your opinion, which I can't enforce or debate with facts, but it's a shame that you think that.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    That was a marriage of convenience; they both had ambitions of greatness and needed each other. If their ambition is to serve the people of this country without an altier motive then go for it. There will always be people in this country who have the connections they need to accomplish what they want.
    Why schmooze at a dinner party where you could just marry into succees?! Who cares about love? Perfect example for young people growing up!

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Your contradicting yourself, you care if she does a good job but the opinions of other New Yorkers who feel she is doing a good job don't matter or are somewhat less then your opinion?
    If she's doing WONDERFUL things for upstaters, then that's fine. I won't even dispute that. But it doesn't matter AT ALL to me. It means absolutely zero.

    It comes down to who is representing and pushing the interests of me, my town and my family, not the Catskills. The person who will receive my vote will do so because they will do what is best for me and my interests (my town, family, etc.), not that of people who don't know what New York City life is like.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDU-JFK
    I find it quite hard for a senator to lobby for people in a state where she has only lived for a certain number of years. You think she knows what its like for her kids to attend school in New York and take the Regents Exams, or other educational concerns? You think she's grown up to see firsthand how the economic structure of the state has changed? She doesn't know enough about New York just from buying a house and living here the past few years.

    What if the mayor of French Lick, Indiana ran for and won the mayoral job of NYC? It's absurd! You have to truly know about a state, its people and its issues and history. Mind you, Bloomy was a native Bostonian but he dealt with and lived in NYC for many years. Yet the liberals used THE SAME carpetbagger argument that I used against Bloomberg, just for him being born in Boston. Being a mayor's different than a senator, but the principle is there. I hate Schumer, but at least he's a New Yorker and represents the people as a New Yorker. Both upstaters and city dwellers can relate to the things he has experienced.
    Sorry I don't buy the fact that if you didn't grow up here you can't understand us, total BS. You don't think other states have the same issues NY has? Of course they do, all over the country we have the same issues, taxes, affordable housing, crime, education. Come on NY isn't all that different from the rest of the country. NY is a great state but letís not get the Texas syndrome that we're different then everyone else because we're not.

  7. #22
    Senior Member RDU-JFK's Avatar
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    Well I disagree. I guess I'm way off in thinking that our senators (EDIT: political leaders) should reflect the people he/she serves. States have their own issues that are very, very important, and if my senator hasn't even been living here for a majority of his/her life, I'm weary. There are many things that make NY different than other states! Otherwise we'd be the United STATE of America.

    And God have mercy on us if she becomes president.
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  8. #23
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    Well I guess Tommy thinks my citizenship should be stripped of since I am not voting because I am not registered as far as I know.

    Alex
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  9. #24
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    [quote=Phil D.]*yawn*

    Quote Originally Posted by "T-Bird76":cdc7e
    Point 1. So am I to understand that even if she is more focused on upstate NY and responds to the needs of upstate NY you would vote for someone who is unproven?
    No, I wouldn't vote for someone who is unproven to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    John Spencer hasn't at all proven himself, why put someone in office that is unproven.
    I'm no fan of him either.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Remember this is one state, NYC and Long Island have for far to long supported upstate, if she is working for upstaters and helping to move those cities forward to be less dependant on us isn't that in your best interest?
    You'd have to be more specific with her proposed legislation that helps upstaters enough to relieve us of our support for them. She cna respond to constituents' letters about downed trees and migrating coyotes all day, but until Albany or Smalltown in Lawrence County develops and builds a population of 8 million, New York City will always support upstate NY, just as any major city supports the rest of their state.

    That being said, I have no issue with upstate NY. But their interests are different than mine, and those who are serving their needs are probably not serving mine.

    Besides, I'm looking for someone to represent me, not someone to represent someone else, get them out of my hair, and still let me unrepresented with the problems that I am facing in my town, borough, city and nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Again I'll raise the question what is the problem with her riding Bill's coat tails?
    My issue with it is that it sets a bad exmaple when the feminist community says that her behavior is worth idolizing. Her motto should be "Stand by your man even if he cheats....because it will help your career."

    The part that bothers me are the people who vote for her just because she is a woman, which is as sexist as anything that those feminists accuse others of. She is hardly the role model for women for the reasons that I mentioned earlier and more.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Honestly I think without her he wouldn't have been President.
    Your opinion, which I can't enforce or debate with facts, but it's a shame that you think that.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    That was a marriage of convenience; they both had ambitions of greatness and needed each other. If their ambition is to serve the people of this country without an altier motive then go for it. There will always be people in this country who have the connections they need to accomplish what they want.
    Why schmooze at a dinner party where you could just marry into succees?! Who cares about love? Perfect example for young people growing up!

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Your contradicting yourself, you care if she does a good job but the opinions of other New Yorkers who feel she is doing a good job don't matter or are somewhat less then your opinion?
    If she's doing WONDERFUL things for upstaters, then that's fine. I won't even dispute that. But it doesn't matter AT ALL to me. It means absolutely zero.

    It comes down to who is representing and pushing the interests of me, my town and my family, not the Catskills. The person who will receive my vote will do so because they will do what is best for me and my interests (my town, family, etc.), not that of people who don't know what New York City life is like.[/quote:cdc7e]

    First for those of you who think Phil and I hate each other right now, we don't we both have a tremendous degree of respect in each others beleifs and throughly enjoy debating with each other. Ok enough of that...

    Well at least you dropped the carpetbagger argument, lol ;)

    How are the interests of upstate New York any different then downstate NY? Letís get out of our bubble that NYC is any different then the rest of the country. The only thing different about NYC and Long Islandís issues is that they are larger in scale, they're the same issues but larger. Tackling the issues in one area of the state does affect the entire state.



    If you want someone to represent you and your town look to your local political leaders not your Federal leaders. Clinton isn't going to get involved with and shouldn't get involved with the hommies hanging out on College Point Blvd. That's where your local leaders need to take a stand.



    Did I say I agree that her marriage was a marriage of benefit? No, read what I wrote! I was stating the obvious fact, Clinton's marriage is a farce and yes itís not the right message to send. However the example of opportunity still holds fact, she used an opportunity to move forward. Could you debate if it was the highest ethical thing to do, perhaps, but it wasn't anything illegal based on the laws of the land and our system of govít.



    Phil you need to get out of this mentality that what happens in upstate NY doesn't affect you. It should matter to you and it should matter to the entire state what goes on in each region of New York. The millions stolen in Suffolk schools donít affect or matter to you? Oh it most certainly does affect and should matter to you, who do you think will get stuck paying for those losses, the tax payers only in that school district? Absolutely not, the entire state will feel that burden. Time to start looking at the big picture, this is the state of New York not the State of New York City. The positive results of a politicianís work in one part of the state somehow in someway effects the entire state, is about the big picture.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex T
    Well I guess Tommy thinks my citizenship should be stripped of since I am not voting because I am not registered as far as I know.

    Alex
    Alex that is very disappointing to hear, I think you need to make a point of registering yourself to vote. It is such an important part of living in a free society and a privilege. Every American needs to vote and voice their choice in leaders.

  11. #26
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    I understand and anyone can bash me if they want but part of the freedom of choosing to vote is also choosing NOT to vote as well.

    There was never another election between now and the last President where I live that required me to vote. I had thought I registered when I signed up for the draft option. So I didn't do anything about it and then someone brought it up that I wasn't registered. I said oh oops ok and just wasn't registered.

    I admit I don't follow politics well enough at all to even know and understand who I am voting for, and I would like to know these people before I make a vote.

    I will definetly vote on the next election once I am signed up.

    Alex
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  12. #27
    Moderator Matt Molnar's Avatar
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    Wow, I'm way late on this. Too bad I had so much work to do this morning.

    I'd like to respond to a lot of points but I don't have time so I'll be brief...

    -- I do not like ANY of the candidates who are running for anything.

    -- That said, I am going to vote anyway, because people have died so that I may vote, as crappy as the people my votes are going for happen to be.

    -- The most likable out of any of these losers was Alan Hevesi, until the "Driving Mrs. Hevesi" scandal surfaced. Stuff like financial impropriety is sort of important when you're running a $140 BILLION pension fund.

    -- I liked Jeannine Pirro until it became clear her personal life makes Bill and Hillary look like Ward and June Cleaver. I generally despise the Cuomos, but Andrew went to my high school so he'll get my vote.

    -- I don't even remember who's running against Spitzer because it was concluded at least two years ago that he was going to win. I do know that his senseless attack on radio "payola" in the name of getting his name in the headlines indirectly destroyed a deal I was working on for my startup business. Also, his safari for Wall Street "criminals," which earned him savior status on 60 Minutes, cost a friend of mine thousands of dollars in legal fees to defend himself against stuff he knew nothing about. In the end, all the fines Spitzer squeezed out of these firms went to the state, and not a dime went back to the "victim" investors who Spitzer supposedly cared so much about.

    -- That chick who appears at the end of the NYCA Public Access video on YouTube is running for my State Senate district. She's a lot hotter than Frank Padavan, so I'll vote for her. There's zero chance that she'll win.
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
    All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
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  13. #28
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Padavan wears his old WW2 uniform at the College Point parades, so he gets mine.

    Pirro plays poker with a handful of victim cards, and I'm sick of it.

    Cuomo went to my friend MAtt's high school, so he gets my vote. ;) haha
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  14. #29
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    Cuomo!! OMG I'd rather vote for a diseased monkey! Have you heard this man speak? He's a fool!

  15. #30
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    CORRECTION: I'm not voting for Cuomo because he went to my friend's high school. I'm voting for him because of the fun reaction I get from Tommy.

    As for Hillary, Tommy, Upstate has little to do with New York City. You are talking about people who having COMPLETELY different jobs, incomes, values and different lifestyles. There's a huge difference in the interest in what a subway-commuting graphic designer that works in a skyscraper and that of someone who owns a tackle shop in Saranac. Different views and different national goals among residents in the various areas of the state are the result.

    One a national level, Hillary might represent those needs of the upstaters amazingly. But that doesn't mean she represents me and what I would want my Senator to do.

    If her marriage is a farce then it's a shame that you'd support someone of such weak moral fiber, who cares more about her image than family values. Though presented with an opportunity, that doesn't mean you take it if it sacrifices her self-worth and perseverance as a woman.
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