Your Thoughts

[T-Bird76]

I've been looking through A.net and JP.net lately and I've noticed some photogs who upload the same plane, same plane type from the same angle over and over again and my question is why? It seems to me it’s a waste of database space and serves no purpose or benefit and pushes down other more interesting photos. What are your thoughts?

[nwafan20]

There is a reason that there is a reject category "Too similar to photo in database" Unfortunately it isn't used much. That is from the people who have lost the spirit, their only taking pics to get them on JP.net or A.net. I believe someone did an article (Phil possibly?) about "Your Roll in the Hobby" that touched on this subject, I just remember sitting there and saying "Yeah, I know people who are like that" over and over again.

[JRadier]

The folks who are uploading every shot they take aren't exactly my type either. I rather upload a somewhat more special shot. But remember people see different things in this hobby. A classmate of mine is a spotter as well, but merely takes photo's to get them all. When he shows me his photo's I start to think right away, rotate, crop, remove grain, light sucks etc etc, while he starts complaining when I crop a stabilizer out.

Difference in opinion I guess......

[NIKV69]

IMO there is no reason to upload the same regi at the same airport. Especially on the same day. Yet you see it all the time and it serves no purpose but to inflate someones pic count in the anet DB. Kind of along the lines of the ol' "How many pics do have on anet? routine. This is lame. I only once shot the same regi at an airport to upload but that was a TW Tristar at a different angle which is I feel is worth adding to the DB. When you see a normal everyday AC regi being uploaded 3 times from the same place it makes you wonder.

[mirrodie]

Tom, great topic.

I find myself trying to do different things. Rather than ask, "where did you take that" and trying to get the same shot, I contemplate, "How can I get that a bit differently?"

Its unfortunate that badcommon is used but not "badsamefrigging anglesamefrigginshot"

[NIKV69]

Nice one Mario

"badsamefrigging anglesamefrigginshot"

How about "badboring" as well.

[PhilDernerJr]

A lot of it comes down to preference. I don't think there's a PROBLEM with it, but it's just not my style.

You've also got to understand that for various reasons whether they be not having a great camera, not getting to go spotting much or whatever it might, that some people don't have the same opportunities to get good photos and upload shots as some of the rest of us might. So when they get a chance to upload something, it feels special to them to get an acceptance, even if it might be the same plane as last time.

I'm just happy to see people wanting to upload as opposed to not uploading.

[mirrodie]

unfortunately, a lot more people grow frustrated with the upload process.

As for badboring, I agree.


I try to upload interesting shots and many get rejected for various reasons that are just SO random.

Yet I could buy a high end Nikon/Canon and just sit there and take the same boring angles and shots over and over again, on a sunny day, and poof, I'll be the top Anet uploader.

Seems silly but thats my opinion.


Nik, did you hear? I had dedicated a slide to you at the last slide show...

[NIKV69]

Yet I could buy a high end Nikon/Canon and just sit there and take the same boring angles and shots over and over again, on a sunny day, and poof, I'll be the top Anet uploader.

Yea and your average views would be 500. BTW don't you own a high end Canon camera? :mrgreen:

You've also got to understand that for various reasons whether they be not having a great camera, not getting to go spotting much or whatever it might, that some people don't have the same opportunities to get good photos and upload shots as some of the rest of us might. So when they get a chance to upload something, it feels special to them to get an acceptance, even if it might be the same plane as last time.

I can not speak for Tom but I think he may have meant photogs with good equip who spot frequently. You can do searches and find the same regi at the same airport 5 times from the same angle. This is done for one purpose, to boost pic count so you can brag to your friends. Your right there is nothing wrong with it. It does however do what Tommy says, it dilutes the DB.

[Tom_Turner]

This sort of discussion really didn't come up until the digital influx...and even then, not right away.

The only bad thing I can say about it is that is makes the experience boring when browsing the database on an open search (open date/airline/aircraft etc) of any given airport - if the uploader has dumped all their shots in one sitting. In fact its the sole reason I don't browse A.net the way I used to; but its hardly something anyone else participating in uploading should (or will) worry about.

But think about the big picture here for a moment. What, after all, is the standard 50mm K64 side-on slide - taken perfectly. Its the same shot over and over again - no different than high approach shots (in a way). What difference would a reg make, or an aiport, - aesthetically, it is of the same value.

Same thing for a wing over a blue, or gray sky.... a row of seats in same class/airline/airliner type..so on and on.....

I do think however, if you take A.net as an actual "database", there *is* (or ought to be) some value to a "repetitive" shot - departure, arrival, side-on whatever, as it IS a *different* DATE whether at the same airport/different airport whatever.

Is it exciting for everyone to look at? No, probably not, but the irony is that the "beast" - the viewing public - with an extensive database to browse, seems to want/hunger for more *new* shots ALL the time. Try cutting A.net down to accepting, say, the "best" 50 shots a day (by whatever criteria you choose) and I bet you'd watch the viewership sink dramatically.

As for the more unusual shots... reflections, plane across a moon scape, snow, or whatever, they'll always be popular..and won't hurt for much, but yeah, other more easily obtainable shots will devalue under the onslaught of repitition.

On a personal note, at one time A.net was one-stop shopping in terms of aviation photography on-line, but, for better or worse, the subject matter has been atomized, and while still the best, (in my view), its late in the day for me to worry about the sanctity of the database, once certain folks packed up and bowed out. And, its especially irrelevant as there is an Admin, and by extension, a team of screeners that makes those decisions anyway of what goes in, based on their own thoughts which, only in passing, have anything to do with me or the average individual that contributes their images for possible inclusion.

In fact I think anyone who wants to call whatever file lands into the A.net database "ART", (and even some of those that don't :) ) should at least have their own individual set of criteria by which they would've crafted their own "rules" of what is worth looking at or not. And, I think most of us DO... The moment one wonders why someone is uploading in a certain way, or the site accepting (or **** canning) certain images, is the moment you part ways in vision with what A.net is (at any given moment...)

Nick - as for bragging about total images I don't see how that doesn't compare to boasting or coveting a high "Average Views" stat. If all things were equal, high average views would indicate nothing more than popularity...but as it is, all things are not equal. It depends on subject matter more than anything, (skill, access, kit, other things..) and if the high average views are obtained by rarely uploading, its simply a meaningless numbers game, because we introduce time as the key variable. Which is, if we are talking about standard airliner shots, (usually) why folks that upload frequently have a low Avg View..(of course). And, as much as I might find "card dumping" annoying to look at, at the end of the day, those that have uploaded in volume can at least say they've shared their passion for the hobby with others (even if they've put me, or you, or someone to sleep), but someone that holds back uploading to have a "high average" ??? what are they sharing? Their stats? What validity do they gain through that?

Inflated Average Views by non participation... just another side of the coin to spamming the database with thousands of shots really (*if* the reason is to brag about numbers...and I am not sure that is everyone's motivation).

At any rate, I am reminded of what a "Head Screener" once suggested: The elimination of stats on A.net. I don't personally agree, because I think the stats are "fun" in a way...but I am sympathetic to what I think he was getting at....

Anyway.. flame away... . :)

Tom

[mikephotos]

Well said Tom. What it comes down to is shooting what YOU enjoy shooting and uploading what YOU enjoy. If you start shooting or uploading only what you think someone else might want to see, something that will get you high hits or just to pump up your quantity than you've lost the whole concept of this hobby....personal enjoyment.

I agree that dumping (uploading) a whole days shoot of similar shots and then doing it again in a few weeks to be somewhat overboard but who am I to tell someone what to do or not to do. If that's what he/she enjoys and if they're doing it for personal satisfation and the images are accepted by the sceeners than so be it. If you enjoy trying to be unique and upload only those types of shots, great. Just don't do it because of the stats...be it high quantity or high hits, which like you said is really the same.

And no, I do not feel the boring shots are a waste of DB space. Take away all of those boring shots and you no longer have a DB, you have a gallery of so-called artsy pretty pictures that are fun to look at but for some of us have no purpose. The DB needs all types of pictures to satisfy all types of views. My views are not going to be the same as yours and that's what makes the hobby so great. I personally tend to find the so-called artsy, unique, 'different' pictures to be in the of the way of the really beautiful gems, the perfect sunny side-on ramp shot :)

Of course that is just my opinion and what I enjoy. I don't look down on others for what they enjoy. In the end, it's just a hobby and well, we all have real lives to worry about :)

I do have to say that everyone here (and even those not on this site) are really pumping some great photos from JFK & LGA into the DBs, keep them coming. It's nice to see we all don't enjoy the same types of shots, that's the beauty of it.

Mike

[NIKV69]

I don't see how that doesn't compare to boasting or coveting a high "Average Views" stat. If all things were equal, high average views would indicate nothing more than popularity...but as it is, all things are not equal. It depends on subject matter more than anything, (skill, access, kit, other things..)

Whether we care to admit it Tom. (And most of us won't) One of the bigger reasons anyone takes pictures is so that people will look at them and like them. If this wasn't the case, and we all just shot "for personal enjoyment" then none of us would upload to anet or JP and none of us would post the links to our pictures in the sticky thread here the minute they get accepted. As far as popularity goes, there are a lot of things that go into making a pic popular. Aircraft, place, where it was shot from but there is also the skill factor. These all make up the equation. I have to agree at times I get a little baffled as to why cabin shots are so popular but that is how it is. Your Thai shot that got over 40K hits is a good example. Your skill and other factors came into place and you took a great photo, hence the people want to look at it.

And, as much as I might find "card dumping" annoying to look at, at the end of the day, those that have uploaded in volume can at least say they've shared their passion for the hobby with others (even if they've put me, or you, or someone to sleep), but someone that holds back uploading to have a "high average" ??? what are they sharing? Their stats? What validity do they gain through that?

Tom you can share your passion for this hobby without uploading the same aircraft five times from the same airport at the same spot at the same angle. Come on. I see photogs that do this and it has nothing to do with anything but driving up pic count for status. I am surprised the anet screeners even allow that. If you catch a special scheme or something that is great there is no reason on this earth to upload it again unless maybe you are at a different airport. You know what Tom. You don't have to shoot everything that goes by. You can actually put the camera down when the same B6 scarebus goes by that you have seen half a million times.

Inflated Average Views by non participation... just another side of the coin to spamming the database with thousands of shots really (*if* the reason is to brag about numbers...and I am not sure that is everyone's motivation).

I disagree with this theory Tom. It is not non-participation it is originality. How fun would the DB be if everyone uploaded everything they shot? There would be so much WN and B6 and other boring stuff there wouldn't be enough time in the day to look at anything. Not to mention the queue would be 20000 pics to be screened at any given time. After you have seen 10 or 20 regular scheme WN or blue and white A320s it's enough, if you catch a special WN scheme fine by all means upload it but keep it somewhat interesting.

Well said Tom. What it comes down to is shooting what YOU enjoy shooting and uploading what YOU enjoy. If you start shooting or uploading only what you think someone else might want to see, something that will get you high hits or just to pump up your quantity than you've lost the whole concept of this hobby....personal enjoyment.

So why do you or any of us upload then? Why do you sell slides? If this hobby is just about shooting pics we like to look at and the friends around us when we shoot them why do we go home and edit and upload them? Mike I get enjoyment from all aspects of the hobby, going to the airport, taking the pics, the people that share the hobby with me. BUT, I also enjoy people looking at my pics, adding them to their albums, emailing me to buy prints, even when someone here at work looks at a pic of mine on the screen and likes it. It's all part of the equation. I don't know why people have to deny this fact and proclaim it's just about the people and your own satisfaction but I don't buy it. The facts on both the two big sites (anet and JP) say otherwise.

[mirrodie]

this discussion has expanded beyond the limits of my cerebral capacity.


I upload what I love, that's it. But I have diverse tastes, as you can tell by looking at my pics, hence I upload a lot of different angles, etc. I am passionate about my photos but once it comes to putting them on Anets DB, I am realizing that my goals differ from that of Anet, so I move forward. I shoot what I love and upload to a site that recognizes passion of aviation.

I have simple goals.

a) to upload shots that I love.

b) to have Anets highest rejection rate.

I already fulfilled my third goal, which only became a goal after Nik pointed it out. ;)...which was to have Anets most notorious and controversial reject. It was uploaded with good intention, (ie. a different motive for a beach that is shot to death) but in the END it was poorly received by some screener.

Life's too short.... shoot pics and have a ball

[T-Bird76]

b) to have Anets highest rejection rate.

Mario my good friend you have achieved the ultimate rejection anyone on this earth that has ever wanted to upload a shot to A.net. I quote Johan "The photo is crap." That is a badge of honor that you should wear proudly!

[PhilDernerJr]

Hits, most photos, going for side-ons, going for artistic shots, getting your first and only photo accepted ever, or whatever else might be your motivation, I think the important thing is that we are DOING something in this hobby, in the many ways there are to pratice and enjoy it.

There's no right or wrong with any of it. It's not even what Anet tells us it is.

However, I'd break it down like this: There are people who shoot planes, and there are photographers. One takes pictures to doucment planes (foir collective or historial reasons), and the other tries to create artistic expression whether it be for personal collection and display, or sharing on the internet, etc.

Airliners.net is actually geared more towards the doumentation, which is why we see the conflicts of motive and so forth.

I understand the feeling of someone getting slightly frustrated when a photo that "deserves" more attention gets pushed back in the listing by other "boring" photos, but keep inmind that there are also people out there who get eqaully as frustrated by the "registration-less" sunset photos. Also keep in mind that some people search through the photo databses through different ways of sorting the shots, so the "pushing back" doesn't affect the photo and the people viewing them as much as you might think.

The thing that excites me is that everyone here has a different level of interest in the variables of uploading....whether they be getting the most photos, hits, unqiue aircraft, etc. One person might be cautious with uploading to only their best work, while the next person, the person that the otehr guy was standing RIGHT next to at Howard Beach, wants as many of his shots as possible to be represented and archived in an onlien database.

That's what I love. We all do our own thing and we all still hang out in the same places, on the smae sites, and still meet up for dinner together once the sun goes down.