Strong Economy

**Midnight Mike** · 2006-10-03, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by T-Bird76

The illegal immigrant problem in this country is proof Americans don't want to work! We think some jobs are below us. I remember only a few years ago landscaper crews were full of American teens and college kids, now their all Mexican. Why because this is below little Johnny now. Hey when you have bills to pay you do what it takes, that's the American way, hard work!

Tommy

Yes, no, maybe.

The Illegal Alien problem shows many things:

(1) Employers will do anything to pay the lowest possible wages,
(2) There are some jobs that people will not do at tooooo low of a wage.

For goodness sake, you have Illegal Aliens working as Construction Workers & the Meat Packing Industries, these are jobs that are high paying jobs, but, by hiring Illegals, the Industry was able to lower wages & push people out....

**hiss srq** · 2006-10-03, 04:39 PM

Labor is "below" this generaqtion, mainly because most parents spoiled and lacished kids because of the short upturn during the Clintion era. Everyone had a sudden burst of money and so on and so fourth and people got lazy. It is not that they can hire them based on lower wages they can force them to live by but most do not wantto do those jobs because it requires LABOR! That is in where the issue is and those that go out there and do it and do it good they deserve to make the money. Bottom line, do not expect much from this spoiled generation because that might be asking too much or unfair to put responsibility of survival on their own on the kids sholders according to them. Daddy's little princess is going to be daddy's little broke loser in a few years because daddy's little girl is too good to do anything other than get her nails done and drive daddy's bmw around on his tab

**PhilDernerJr** · 2006-10-03, 05:34 PM

I was going to respond to Tomym with what Mike siad about companies going after the cheaper labor in order to compete.

The solution? Pay the immigrants more. If you force up wages of immigrants so to that of normal standards, there is no longer the incentive for companies to hire them, and they'll go back to skilled, American workers for production.

But then, how do you prevent companies from producing overseas and shipping it back? No idea. All of the solutions I can think of either restrict capitlism and other forms of trade, or there will be too many loopholes. Like I said, tight spot.

But in order to make higher wages worth it, we need some better goods to produce that are better than elsewhere in the world.

To do this, we need mroe engineers. We need our education system to step it up a notch.

But the big problem I see which also pertians to immigration and doesn't pertian to Mexico....are the foreigners who come to our nation to study. I have no problemw ith them coming here, in fact, I want them to. My issue lies with their visas expiring the second they leave school, and we send them back to their country to offer Pakistan or Thailand another freshly honed, American-educated engineer.

No only do we need to stop cancelling their visas, but we need a job program or some sort of incentive to get them to STAY HERE. We NEED them on our team.

**T-Bird76** · 2006-10-03, 06:24 PM

Mike my point is we as Americans are getting very lazy and picky when it comes to jobs. We rather sit home complaining then get off our asses and pick some carrots! Why simply is it that if the job pays crap money we think its below us?

**PhilDernerJr** · 2006-10-03, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by T-Bird76

Mike my point is we as Americans are getting very lazy and picky when it comes to jobs. We rather sit home complaining then get off our asses and pick some carrots! Why simply is it that if the job pays crap money we think its below us?

I think that Americans do have that mentality, but as for this immigration issue, I don't think it applies, because a legally residing American can't support himself, much less raise a family, on $3 an hour.

**hiss srq** · 2006-10-03, 07:27 PM

but Mexican families somehow are surviving. If you need to do it you can do it. For how many years did people make it with the bare minmum for unfair pay etc etc... and some bacame massive. You make sense Phil but I just do not beleive it is excuse for Americans to not work or not do things to their best no matter what they are making an hour. If Julio can support 5 kids cutting grass for bare minimal whether it be day to day or not they manage to do it and you never see them complain about it and we have the ability to legally support ourselves by a better means than them and we moan groan etc etc.. .and they are smileing and greatful.

**T-Bird76** · 2006-10-03, 07:31 PM

[quote=Phil D.]

Originally Posted by "T-Bird76":2719f

Mike my point is we as Americans are getting very lazy and picky when it comes to jobs. We rather sit home complaining then get off our asses and pick some carrots! Why simply is it that if the job pays crap money we think its below us?

I think that Americans do have that mentality, but as for this immigration issue, I don't think it applies, because a legally residing American can't support himself, much less raise a family, on $3 an hour.[/quote:2719f]

People can't support a family on 8 bucks an hour that Walmart pays either, but somehow we think that's better then picking carrots or collecting grass clippings. We need to stop this BS about being better then the next.

**hiss srq** · 2006-10-03, 07:33 PM

wow me and tommy agree this is getting frightening! :lol:

**T-Bird76** · 2006-10-03, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by hiss srq

but Mexican families somehow are surviving. If you need to do it you can do it. For how many years did people make it with the bare minmum for unfair pay etc etc... and some bacame massive. You make sense Phil but I just do not beleive it is excuse for Americans to not work or not do things to their best no matter what they are making an hour. If Julio can support 5 kids cutting grass for bare minimal whether it be day to day or not they manage to do it and you never see them complain about it and we have the ability to legally support ourselves by a better means than them and we moan groan etc etc.. .and they are smileing and greatful.

Bad example, most of that money is sent back to Mexico, living conditions are far far less costly then here. I'm not arguing the point about how much money you need to survive I think a core problem with our country right now is the down right ****ty work ethic that exists.

**PhilDernerJr** · 2006-10-03, 08:05 PM

The peopel making $8 an hour at Walmart arethere while they're in school or using it as a secondary income. That's not a production company either, which is where the wages we are dicussing is referring to.

The comparison would be factories and small task construction, where immigrant workers earn those smaller wages. These are companies where middle-class Americans used to work and raise their families with their job, earning a decent amount of money with benefits, a retirement plan and so forth.

**NcSchu** · 2006-10-03, 08:28 PM

If the government puts more pressure on companies then they won't have any incentive to hire illegal immigrants. By hiring them, companies don't have to pay them high wages nor do they have to supply health insurance or pay taxes, because all of them are undocumented. Stopping them from crossing the border won't help until we stop the reason they want to come here. Small tangent, but it would probably help our economy. More legal Americans that have jobs = more tax money for the gov't = less deficit (well..maybe) = more money to spend on goods. I'm not really an economics expert, but this is the way I look at it.

**PhilDernerJr** · 2006-10-03, 08:33 PM

But once the wages go up, then the cost of production goes up, and cost of living goes up.

**T-Bird76** · 2006-10-03, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Phil D.

The people making $8 an hour at Walmart arethere while they're in school or using it as a secondary income. That's not a production company either, which is where the wages we are dicussing is referring to.

The comparison would be factories and small task construction, where immigrant workers earn those smaller wages. These are companies where middle-class Americans used to work and raise their families with their job, earning a decent amount of money with benefits, a retirement plan and so forth.

Phil outside the Tristate area Walmart in many cases is the sole employer. In towns all over the Midwest where a factory once employed the town a Walmart is now the sole employer. These people aren't working there for a second income or just a college job. They work there because they have no where else to work. Hence my example of a once production economy turning to a service based economy.

In many ways the fight going on with Walmart right now over worker rights reminds me of the early 20th century when workers weren't treated fairly. Yes I know its not the same but in spirit its the same.

The latest trick Walmart is up to is to begin to employee up to 40% part time workers for their entire work force. This way they don't have to pay benefits. Walmart is currently the largest employer in the nation. Think about the millions of people who will be without benefits.