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Thread: Breaking News on CNN - Sad Story

  1. #31
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    That's way cool Moose!
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    Tomcats Forever, Baby!

  2. #32
    Senior Member SengaB's Avatar
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    AAH another flight simmer.
    John....GO into the aircraft.cfg config file for your CRJ and change the following (similar) parameters. "Search for static thrust" and increase it to 120000
    This one is for a EMB-145
    [TurbineEngineData]
    fuel_flow_gain=0.002
    inlet_area=6.415
    rated_N2_rpm=29920.000
    static_thrust=7612.735
    afterburner_available=0
    reverser_available=1
    You shouldn't have a problem on Runway 26 anymore......
    Flaps? Who needs them? Breaks? You will!
    Don't forget to copy your cfg file

    Senga

  3. #33
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    When I would spend time in the old Eastern 727, we would take off from general aviation airports and when we were very marginal as in....stick shaker screaming like crazy to get clear of the runway on the very last inch of overrun....I would get some extra leeway and a good 10-20knots if I were to wait on the flaps....I found that I could go from 0-25 flaps in the same time I would be rotating if I did it on the crosscheck call...80knots, Slam them down and be ready to pull..... Check it out, it works well..... but all of this is when you know you are on a smaller runway than you should be.

    I sure feel bad for the F/O.....if he does survive, he will wish he was dead for a very long time. He is going to need Lots of help and lots of support.

    so sad
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  4. #34
    Senior Member Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SengaB
    AAH another flight simmer.
    John....GO into the aircraft.cfg config file for your CRJ and change the following (similar) parameters. "Search for static thrust" and increase it to 120000
    This one is for a EMB-145
    [TurbineEngineData]
    fuel_flow_gain=0.002
    inlet_area=6.415
    rated_N2_rpm=29920.000
    static_thrust=7612.735
    afterburner_available=0
    reverser_available=1
    You shouldn't have a problem on Runway 26 anymore......
    Flaps? Who needs them? Breaks? You will!
    Don't forget to copy your cfg file

    Senga
    If those engines could really do that, Rutan would have lost the X-prize in a hearbeat! ;)
    The three most common expressions in aviation are, "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" and "Oh Crap".

  5. #35
    Senior Member hiss srq's Avatar
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    I feel bad for the F/O as well, if he was the PF well than he will more than likely wish that he was dead. My philosphy is that if he was the PNF and he pulls through enough to be able to return to flight status he will actually become much more hireable in a sense because most pilots that have an accident and walk away from it etc............ become much more aware pilots, they learn alot more and become super super observant in the longrun. That is someone you want in your flight department for sure. Humans make mistakes in life and that is that. Unfortuneately this mistake cost many lives that should not have been but though he would be an accountable party in this incident he is alive and I am sure that it will always remain a fresh thought in his head for next time. I know this accident has taught me a valueable lesson .
    Southwest Airlines-"Once it pop's it's time to stop" Southwest Airlines-"Our Shamu's are almost real" Southwest Airlines -"We blow our top real easy" Southwest Airlines- "You can't top us..... really"

  6. #36
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    If the FO does in fact survive I think this guy must be being saved for something very Important. I read this morning a few years ago he was having a blow out fight with his then wife (now ex-wife) at their Margate, Florida home when she pulled out a gun and shot him in the stomach at point blank range. She was arrested for attempted murder. I personally believe to survive these two events only a few years apart is more than co-incidence. He his still on this earth for a reason. BTW don't know if some of you saw this but the FO and FA where JFK based, although the Captain was CVG based.

    Regards

    LGA777

  7. #37
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    Wow Ron, that's amazing. Lucky sonofabitch.

  8. #38
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    I keep seeing news reports that these pilots were "experienced," yet no details have been released about what they did before their employment at Comair or how many hours they actually had in type. I know that the commuters have taken alot of people with low times and who come from "pilot factory" sort of academies where the emphasis is more on systems than old-fashioned pilotage skills, and taking off on the wrong runway is obviously a mistake in pilotage. i.e. situational awareness, not in systems. Anyone know more on the backgrounds of these guys? Were either of them career-changer types from the Comair Academy (which I once visited and considered attending)? While of course it's very sad all around, as a consumer of airline services, a/k/a a paying passenger, I find it appallingly fascinating that 2 qualified professionals could make such a catastrophic error.

  9. #39
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    They released some info on both pilots yesterday, both had many years behind the stick of the CRJ and proper training. Sadly the pilots will more then likely get blamed for being on the wrong runway.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Mateo's Avatar
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    Couple of things here - after the AF Concorde crash, I tried to fly it losing engines 1 and 2 at rotation. It mushed around at a very high AOA for a while before going down.

    It's a fairly well-known performance characteristic of the CRJ that it has great second-segment climb performance thanks to the powerful engines, but takes forever to get off the ground because there are no slats. CRJs depart off of 5200' runway 33 at DCA all the time - I'll have to pay attention the next time I go out to see rotation points.

    Even if the FO was the PNF, it's still his responsibility to point out to the PF that they're on the wrong runway. Not to mention that runway 26 was 1.) unlit, 2.) not ILS marked, and 3.) you can tell when you look down the thing if a runway is 3500' or 7000'! I suppose it's redundant to mention the 60' high numbers....

    Does Comair do the "both pilots push the throttles together" thing?

    Every accident is always the result of a number of failures linked together, but the final link in this chain does appear to be pilot error. Every accident, though, provides an opportunity to learn and change procedures. Out of this one, we'll probably see more improvements to CRM, possibly with a verification between the PF and the PNF that they're on the correct runway, and maybe even an ATC restriction as to when airplanes can be cleared for takeoff. I'm wondering if this was one of those situations where, on an empty field, the aircraft was cleared for takeoff pretty much upon leaving the apron area.

  11. #41
    Moderator USAF Pilot 07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    Sadly the pilots will more then likely get blamed for being on the wrong runway.
    Not to be critical or anything, but it kinda was their fault...

    That being said I think this could have happened to anyone, from an experienced lifetime pilot to a newbie.
    I'm sure this situation happens a lot, especially at smaller airports, or in GA flying. THe only difference is that they end up making it airborne and climb out with no/little issue. Unfortunately in this case, the plane just couldn't handle it.

  12. #42
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Yes, sorry to armchair it, but checking their heading once they turned onto the "active" before gunning the throttle would have solved it.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    Yes, sorry to armchair it, but checking their heading once they turned onto the "active" before gunning the throttle would have solved it.
    Is it a normal procedure though to check your compass? I've seen at some airports there are signs near the runways to check your compass heading. They mentioned this runway didn't have those signs.

    I heard this morning that when the plane was on the runway they radioed to the tower the runway lights were not on. You would think the tower would have realized at that point they were on the wrong runway, and why did they begin to roll is another question. This is sounding more and more like an unfortunate breakdown in procedures and communication.

  14. #44
    Senior Member hiss srq's Avatar
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    [quote=T-Bird76]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Phil D.":bb829
    Yes, sorry to armchair it, but checking their heading once they turned onto the "active" before gunning the throttle would have solved it.
    [/quote:bb829]


    It is one of the first things you learn in flight school normally. It is the last thing I do before my hand goes to the throttles personally. If I am doing a rolling departure I verify it as I am pushing them up so there is enough time to abort if need be. Whether it is IMC or VMC you should always do that. This is a very unfortuneate example of pilots who got too complaicent or just simply slacked off slightly and assumed so it seems.
    Southwest Airlines-"Once it pop's it's time to stop" Southwest Airlines-"Our Shamu's are almost real" Southwest Airlines -"We blow our top real easy" Southwest Airlines- "You can't top us..... really"

  15. #45
    Senior Member hiss srq's Avatar
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    I just heard that the First Officer and long survivor was in fact the PF on that flight. Wow is he going to wish he was dead if he does not die. Sad story, now the intresting thing will be why the PNF did not call this irregularity out as he punched them up to go.
    Southwest Airlines-"Once it pop's it's time to stop" Southwest Airlines-"Our Shamu's are almost real" Southwest Airlines -"We blow our top real easy" Southwest Airlines- "You can't top us..... really"

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