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Thread: Israel launches offensive inside Lebanon

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    Israel launches offensive inside Lebanon

    This could be the start of war....
    :evil:
    Israel launches offensive inside Lebanon
    7 Israeli troops die in fighting; soldier kidnappings called an ‘act of war’
    MSNBC News Services


    Updated: 8:21 a.m. PT July 12, 2006
    MARJAYOUN, Lebanon - The Israeli army on Wednesday said seven soldiers were killed in fighting with Hezbollah guerrillas after a cross-border raid in which the Lebanese group captured two other soldiers and dozens of Israeli troops crossed the frontier with warplanes, tanks and gunboats to hunt for the captives.

    Israel’s Channel 10 reported Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz authorized a campaign of air strikes targeting Hezbollah guerrilla installations and Lebanese civilian infrastructure — a second front in the fight against Islamic militants by Israel, which already is waging an operation to free a captured soldier in the Gaza Strip.

    The report described the planned blitz as part of Israel’s response to the capture of two of its soldiers and killing of several others in a Hezbollah border raid earlier in the day.

    Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called the soldiers’ capture “an act of war.”

    Striking deep
    Israeli jets struck deep into southern Lebanon, blasting bridges and Hezbollah positions and killing two civilians, Lebanese security officials said.

    The Israeli military planned to call up thousands of reservists, and residents of Israeli towns on the border with Lebanon were ordered to seek cover in underground bomb shelters.

    Israel’s Defense Ministry said the Lebanese government was responsible for the two soldiers’ safety.

    The United States, U.N., European Union, France and Germany expressed deep concern about the fighting. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan called for the immediate release of kidnapped Israeli soldiers and condemned Israel’s retaliation in southern Lebanon.

    Arab League concerns
    The Arab League planned an urgent meeting on the crisis Thursday amid “fears of widening of tension and possible Israeli strike against Syria,” which backs Hezbollah, a senior league official in Cairo said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

    Syrian Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa blamed Israel for the escalating violence in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories and denied his country had a role in either abduction.

    “It’s up to the resistance — both the Lebanese and the Palestinian — to decide what they are doing and why are they fighting,” he told reporters in Damascus.

    The top U.N. official in Lebanon, Geir Pedersen, met with Lebanon’s prime minister and denounced Hezbollah’s incursion across the border into northern Israel, known as the Blue Line.

    “Hezbollah’s action escalates the already tense situation along the Blue Line and is an act of very dangerous proportions,” he said in a statement.

    U.S. Assistant Secretary of State David Welch, on a visit to Cairo, Egypt, said the soldiers’ capture was “a very dangerous escalation.”

    He accused Syria of interfering to prevent a solution to abduction of Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit, who was seized by Gaza militants.

    “We are dismayed that so far there are some who are intending to interfere,” he said.


    Jubilation in south Beirut
    Meantime, jubilant residents of south Beirut, a stronghold of Hezbollah, and Palestinians in the Ein el-Hilwa refugee camp fired in the air and set off firecrackers for more than an hour after the capture of the Israeli soldiers was announced.

    Hezbollah also called for major "celebration rallies" to be held in Lebanon on Thursday and had started to organize them, NBC News' Richard Engel reported. In the past, similar celebrations have attracted tens of thousands, or even several hundred thousand people.

    Hezbollah sources also said the “Palestinians are very happy,” clearly showing Hezbollah’s solidarity with Hamas.

    Hezbollah supporters were seen setting off fire crackers and distributing sweets in the streets of Beirut. Similar scenes were reported across Lebanon.

    Turning back the clock
    Army Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz warned the Lebanese government that the Israeli military will target infrastructure and “turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years,” if the soldiers are not returned, Israeli TV reported.

    Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 and withdrew after high casualties on both sides.

    A top Hamas leader said his movement did not coordinate with Hezbollah on the capture of the soldiers, but said it was “natural” for the two groups to work together in their demands against Israel.

    “Now Israeli has to decide on its choices,” Osama Hamdan, Hamas’ spokesman in Lebanon, told The Associated Press. “It is early to talk about details of the exchange, but no doubt the operation carried out by Hezbollah today will strengthen our demands to exchange the captives.”

    Fates of 9,000 prisoners at stake
    Hamas-linked militants have demanded the release of at least some of the estimated 9,000 prisoners held by Israel in exchange for Shalit’s freedom. Hamdan’s comments suggested the group now may toughen its stance.

    Shalit, 19, was captured June 25 by Hamas-linked militants on a cross-border raid into Israel from Gaza.

    The Israeli offensive in Gaza since Shalit’s capture has killed more 60 Palestinians, most gunmen but about a dozen civilians. One Israeli soldier has died in that operation, shot by fellow troops.
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    At this rate the progress that was made over the last 15 years will be totally erased. I just hope this doesn't escalate over into Syria. Get ready for oil to be $95 a barrel!

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    Senior Member Ari707's Avatar
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    it will go into Syria if they don';t for the terrorists to release the soliders, knocking of syria will be the best that can happen for both Syria and Lebanon

    With Israel calling up the reserves means that they are in it for the long haul and this isn't a quick raid
    Overheard on JFK TOWER - S Turns are fine, U-Turns are bad....

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    Senior Member Hyder's Avatar
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    Israeli government has lost their mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyder
    Israeli government has lost their mind.
    Really? So, it is ok for these countries to kidnap their Soldiers & continue to fire rockets into Israel?
    The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
    run out of other people’s money.
    ” - Margaret Thatcher

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    Senior Member Hyder's Avatar
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    You act as if Israel hasn't been doing the same thing. except in Israel's case it's most likely seen as a prisoner of war, while in every other sense it's a terrorist organization kidnapping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyder
    You act as if Israel hasn't been doing the same thing. except in Israel's case it's most likely seen as a prisoner of war, while in every other sense it's a terrorist organization kidnapping.
    Well explain to us what category these folks who fight for no country fall into? Israel has every right to do what its doing. I don't take a war hawk stand all to often but in this case I hope Israel wipes these people off the face of the earth. Terrorists and the countries who support them have no place in civil society. Countries like Syria and Iran have made it clear they want no part of modern society and need to be dealt with accordingly. Israel has taken the gloves off and they'll be successful. I'm not Jewish but I fully support the Israeli stance on never allowing antisemits to attempt to destroy their people.

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    Senior Member Hyder's Avatar
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    Wow i didnt know fox news posted on this board, but seriously all these people fall into the context of human beings.

    Israel in my eyes will always be an illegal occupation of land that was never theirs and I like a lot of logical minded people in this world do not recognize it as a legal entity. That so called country alone has gone against so many UN treaties (i forgot the technical term, it could be sanctions) than Iraq ever did yet they are left alone because of their affilation with the US. Israel is just as bad if not worse than Hamas. Both sides are lunatics, because like america they dont believe in peaceful negotations and only war.

    Irans leader maybe quite off key, but besides being heavily misrepresented in the press from his quotations, he did extend a call to our own president to sit down and talk about how we can move foward. But of course Bush, like israel, act like 5 year olds and refuse to even talk about a comprimise. They just say they're all terrorists and we don't negotiate with them. What good does that lead to exactely?

    That's like a friend or acquaintance you constantly have to deal with say to you "Hey i know we have our differences, lets talk so we can work things out" and the other person says "**** you, im not even talking to you i think you're a *********". What possible progression can you make for peace when BOTH sides aren't talking and only fight? You can't make any.

    It may seem like i'm taking the palestine side on this WHOLE thing, but i think both sides are equally as stupid the way they conduct themselves, and i think our president is a bona fide retard over his mentality to middle eastern countries.

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    Israel in my eyes will always be an illegal occupation of land that was never theirs
    Hyder here's a newsflash it’s not the Palestinians land either. You want to get real technical the only people in "Palestine" before the Jews were the Bedouin. All Palestinians are descended from other Arab nations who generally came to the land to seek a better life. So the claim it’s the land of the Palestinians is BS. The word Palestine came from the Romans who after destroying and kicking out the Jews remaned the land.

    Iran’s leader maybe quite off key, but besides being heavily misrepresented in the press from his quotations
    I'm not sure how you can miss quote someone who says the Holocaust never took place?? My god anyone with even a grade school education who says the Holocaust never took place has some serious issues and this guy is running a country seeking nuclear weapons.

    Two years ago I taught a class on the Holocaust at a local college I'm very well versed in the horrors that were committed to the Jews. What most of us see or have learned without deeper study on the holocaust is just the tip of the iceberg. Here's a chilling thought, the only Synagogue left standing in Nazi controlled Europe was in Prague. Hitler left it standing because after the war he wanted a museum of extinct people. Don't for one second tell me the President of Iran has been grossly misquoted! He would like nothing more then to see every Jewish person on this planet extinct. Say the people of Iran may have been misquoted since I'm sure they are required at gun point to attend these rallies but DO NOT say the President of Iran has been misquoted.

    I fully support any actions Israel takes to defend the Jewish people including complete destruction of their neighbors if it came to that unfortunate conclusion..

    because like america they dont believe in peaceful negotations and only war.
    Whether or not you support the war in Iraq which I don't by the way do not say this country does not believe in peaceful means to resolve conflicts. When you speak of America I'm sure you are speaking of our leadership, or at least I should hope so. The people of this country are perhaps the most peaceful giving people that have ever graced this Earth. I'd wager a years salary any average American would rather see peaceful talks rather then war. What we did in Iraq was wrong and goes against our founding father George Washington's doctrine of never invading a nation without due cause.

    As far as terrorists falling into the context of human beings, I'm sorry but they do not.

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    Senior Member Hyder's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how you can miss quote someone who says the Holocaust never took place?? My god anyone with even a grade school education who says the Holocaust never took place has some serious issues and this guy is running a country seeking nuclear weapons.
    My granduncle is fluent in arabic and persian, he tells me that the leader of Iran is being misquoted especially on the topic of which you just said. Iran's leader never said that "the holocaust never happened", what he actually said that the number of jews killed were exaggerated. He never ever said that it never took place. Dude if you want certain areas to come to the 21st century, nuclear power is the only way. You're deny them that right for research and technology, it's the idiotic suspicions of our government who are keeping so many middle eastern countries behind the times because they suspect every single arab of being a terrorist. They have the full right to do nuclear research and supply their country with nuclear power. If you feel that they're doing this to attack us, just remember which was the only country in history to actually use nuclear force, and now see how ironic it is that they're the ones saying that other people can't have it. What the american government is doing is just straight foward not allowing anyone else to have power and a say in this world...to go back to my first statement...they're being bullies.

    Our media has misquoted the leader of Iran, because they're doing their absolute best to justify making him a madman who wants to kill us. It was easy with saddam, because he practically was what he was. But this guy is nowhere in the ballpark with what saddam was. He's just a guy trying to bring his people to the 21st century. I just think that he has been misrepreseted in a very wrong way just because our media and government would want us to see him that way. A comedian once made an excellent point and said

    The way fox news shows us a terrorist saying "death to the jews & infidels" is the same way al jazeera will show a kkk member saying "death to all muslims, blacks etc.". Of course these people don't stand for their people, but our media has a clever way of making us think that they do.

    When you speak of America I'm sure you are speaking of our leadership, or at least I should hope so.
    To be very blunt, you're a fool if you thought i spoke of the people. I don't need a lecture on what the people of this country believe, but i am quite happy you can recognize the faults in our government.

    As far as terrorists falling into the context of human beings, I'm sorry but they do not.
    But this i have to address because if you thought that's who i was referring to, i think you have problems. But that also has to put in question what you define as terrorists. When i say "all these people", i do mean all Israeli's and Arab's who just want peace. That's why i consistently made the distinction by saying "israeli gov't" as opposed to just israeli's.

    including complete destruction of their neighbors if it came to that unfortunate conclusion..
    This right here scares the **** out of me, something like this i would expect to hear from a radical. But no logical minded person in this world could ever say something like this. and don't even try to say that "it's a last option"...No. Remarks like that are what causes so much suffering in the world, i'd expect those type of words to be uttered by like an Osama. Not an american. It's the same thing what i said before, you're letting the wrong people represent an entire civilization. To call for the mass destruction of people makes you no different than the fools themselves.

    The reason why both of these governments are failing their people are because nobody is talking with eachother anymore because either one country views the other as terrorists, or the other country views them as having no right to even be there. These are child'ish attitudes to resolving this extremely huge issue. your comment on wiping out a mass group of individuals...what the **** is the matter with you? you know more innocent lives are lost than the ones who are responsible, so how can the complete destruction of a people ever resolve anything? i'd really hate to be one of your students.

    As for who "owns" that land, i'll come back with an answer for this, very soon. Not because i don't know, i just want my facts straight.

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    My granduncle is fluent in arabic and persian, he tells me that the leader of Iran is being misquoted especially on the topic of which you just said. Iran's leader never said that "the holocaust never happened", what he actually said that the number of jews killed were exaggerated
    I fail to see the difference in the meaning? Whether it was one million, two million, or six million, one is too much. For any leader to even attempt to downplay the holocaust is sickening. The President of Iran has called for the complete destruction of Israel, this is not the word of a madman? Please tell me why we should trust Iran? Their track record has been less then stellar. Are you prepared to risk allowing them to have unrestricted nuclear technology? We trusted Hitler in 1936 and look what happened. I don't think the world needs to take that risk again.

    But this i have to address because if you thought that's who i was referring to, i think you have problems. But that also has to put in question what you define as terrorists. When i say "all these people", i do mean all Israeli's and Arab's who just want peace. That's why i consistently made the distinction by saying "israeli gov't" as opposed to just israeli's.
    Who I define as a terrorist in the Mideast is simple, the Muslim extremists who fight for no country and represent no collective group of people. I do not consider the uniformed soldiers in the Israeli armed forces to be terrorists. They are defending a sovereign nation and the free citizens of that nation.

    You call me an extremist?? I hardly think so...the simple fact of the matter is when it’s the end of the day the people of Israel have a choice to make, their way of life or the end of their culture and their people. The destruction of the Jewish people has been attempted far to many times throughout history. To think it will not be attempted again if the opportunity presented itself is foolish. Israel will do what it takes to keep its people on this earth and I support their cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyder

    My granduncle is fluent in arabic and persian, he tells me that the leader of Iran is being misquoted especially on the topic of which you just said. Iran's leader never said that "the holocaust never happened", what he actually said that the number of jews killed were exaggerated. He never ever said that it never took place. Dude if you want certain areas to come to the 21st century, nuclear power is the only way. .
    You have plenty of nations, not just the United States, that simply, does not trust Iran with a Nuclear Program. It was the EU that had been negotiation with Iran for years, for Iran to give up its Nuclear Program, same Nuclear program that they had started in secrecy.

    The President of Iran said the Holocaust did not exist, same president that called for Israel to be wiped off the planet, same president that refuses to that Israel is even on a map.

    http://service.spiegel.de/cache/interna ... 60,00.html

    Ahmadinejad: We don't want to confirm or deny the Holocaust. We oppose every type of crime against any people. But we want to know whether this crime actually took place or not.
    SPIEGEL: Are you still saying that the Holocaust is just "a myth?"

    Ahmadinejad: I will only accept something as truth if I am actually convinced of it.
    Ahmadinejad: Precisely that is our point. Why should you feel obliged to the Zionists? If there really had been a Holocaust, Israel ought to be located in Europe, not in Palestine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyder

    Israel in my eyes will always be an illegal occupation of land that was never theirs and I like a lot of logical minded people in this world do not recognize it as a legal entity. That so called country alone has gone against so many UN treaties (i forgot the technical term, it could be sanctions) than Iraq ever did yet they are left alone because of their affilation with the US. Israel is just as bad if not worse than Hamas. Both sides are lunatics, because like america they dont believe in peaceful negotations and only war.
    Land was given to Israel in 1948 by the United Nations, and what do their Arab neighbors do, they lauch an invasion. Again in the 1950's, & again in the 1960's.

    Yes, Israel is not exactly an innocent in this, but, they certainly inflame the issue and are constantly instigating the conflict.
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    Senior Member Tom_Turner's Avatar
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    Israel is being attacked from Gaza and Southern Lebanon...areas they've pulled out of.... by Hamas and Hezbollah... sponsored by Syria and Iran.

    Israel has the right to self defense... and a right to survival.

    There is no sustainable negoitiatable settlement unless Syria and Iran want there to be one. I doubt they'll feel the need until the WAR comes to them..which it will in the next couple of years - maybe sooner, because Israel recognizes this, as well as what is likely to happen if a nuclear device winds up in the hands of genocidal Islamic organizations.
    "Keep 'em Flying"

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    Senior Member Hyder's Avatar
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    Israel is being attacked from Gaza and Southern Lebanon...areas they've pulled out of.... by Hamas and Hezbollah... sponsored by Syria and Iran.
    It also makes total sense that Israel has taken this giant offensive for two captured soldiers who aren't being hurt at all. It's also funny while Israel has been pulling out of certain settlements, it's perfectly fine that they bulldoze other palestinian settlements with people living in them. They're hipocrites.


    Israel has the right to self defense... and a right to survival.
    Palestine is doing the exact same thing, they're backs have been against the wall since day one. I don't agree with people blowing themselves up, i think it's cowardly and has no connection with Islamic law, but these people have become so desperate for maintaining their homes and lives. They lost so much in these 50+ years because Israel just takes more and more of what's not their own.

    Land was given to Israel in 1948 by the United Nations, and what do their Arab neighbors do, they lauch an invasion. Again in the 1950's, & again in the 1960's
    I'm glad they did. Because none of the arab nations even agreed to the partition, just because the UN delegates a law, it doesn't exactely constitute it as making sense especially when a comprimise was never landed with neighboring countries to begin with. How could the UN think this plan would work when majority if all other arab nations didn't agree to this.



    You have plenty of nations, not just the United States, that simply, does not trust Iran with a Nuclear Program. It was the EU that had been negotiation with Iran for years, for Iran to give up its Nuclear Program, same Nuclear program that they had started in secrecy.

    The President of Iran said the Holocaust did not exist, same president that called for Israel to be wiped off the planet, same president that refuses to that Israel is even on a map.
    Wasn't russia in talks with Iran not too long ago about this matter? And i've said it before and i'll say it again. The man was misquoted beyond death. and yes the holocaust was a great tragedy, many people died... how many times will the jews wave that flag for sympathy. From what i know the holocaust didn't become "the holocaust" until maybe 20-30 years after the war. Since then "jewish" historians have been doubling and triple'ing the number of jewish people killed. When majority of the jews realized hitlers ideals, majority of them fled from germany. Otherwise there is no possible way we could have the number of jews we have today...especially if the number the "jewish" historians claim were killed in the holocaust. It's a point the leader of a Iran has the full right to say.

    The President of Iran has called for the complete destruction of Israel, this is not the word of a madman?
    I fully support any actions Israel takes to defend the Jewish people including complete destruction of their neighbors if it came to that unfortunate conclusion
    Are these not words of Mad men? hahaha

    How does a soldier, 1 SOLDIER, being taken captive give Israel the right to invade a foreign territory, and bomb and kill innocent civilians?
    This country (USA) condemns other places as terrorist states and yet support Israel who are obliterating the lives of so many innocent people over 3 captured soldiers. There is nothing to justify that. Israel is nothing but a terrorist state of its own.

    a person i know made a very good point
    "As long as there is an Israel, there will never be peace in the Middle East. I mean, they only STOLE the land because they think they have some God given right to it. If they had a right to it, they probably wouldn't have lost it in the 1st place....."

    It's also interesting to note that in the Quran and Bible, the jews are the ones who are depicted as ones who constantly turned their back on God and killed his messengers (Prophets) and yet somehow they believe they are entitled to this land. Go figure.

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