Israel launches offensive inside Lebanon

[Mellyrose]

how many times will the jews wave that flag for sympathy.

I find that statement extremely offensive. The killing of the Jews was the among the largest acts of genocide toward one group of people in history (I'm not 100% on whether it was absolutely THE largest, but I am pretty sure it was). Poland alone lost 90% of it's Jewish population...3 million. The Jews do not wave a flag for sympathy...it's history. It's not going to go away. Every day, all different minorities dwell on things that happened to their people in the past, it doesn't mean they are crying for sympathy....and it affects our social dynamic no matter what views you have.

From what i know the holocaust didn't become "the holocaust" until maybe 20-30 years after the war. Since then "jewish" historians have been doubling and triple'ing the number of jewish people killed. When majority of the jews realized hitlers ideals, majority of them fled from germany. Otherwise there is no possible way we could have the number of jews we have today...especially if the number the "jewish" historians claim were killed in the holocaust.

I just have a couple questions. First of all, why are you referring to Jewish Historians in quotations?

Also, do you yourself really believe that the Holocaust was exaggerated? Estimated figures from the Nazi regime records indicate numbers from 5 to 7 million. Millions of innocent people were murdered. Women, children, the mentally and physically disabled....completely helpless.

I think that any kind of questioning whether this was as terrible as it is portrayed is just awful. It is something that should be left alone.


Nevermind the fact that what is going on in Lebanon has nothing to do with what historians say about the Holocaust.

[Novanglus]

A couple of thoughts in my head:

I don’t know how Israel “stole” anything, if it’s what the UN gave them.

Israel not existing would not bring peace, because the Muslim extremists are against Western Civilization. They don’t like the fact that we sell water, fruit and natural things from the Earth for money. They hate the Western way, Israel or not.

To counter your friend’s quote, I’d like to share a quote from a great Dennis Miller rant:

“… Five hundred million Arabs; five Million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a Pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, Everyone will be pals.”

Read the rest of his rant here: http://www.betar.co.uk/articles/betar1068477052.php

I think Dennis is right when he says that the Palestinians have had their chances for peace and to come to a deal, and would rather occupy their lives with the hobby of having someone to hate.

the jews are the ones who are depicted as ones who constantly turned their back on God and killed his messengers (Prophets)

I must have the Fox News version of The Bible, because I don’t exactly recall that.

… none of the arab nations even agreed to the partition

That’s why you join the United Nations and VOTE on their resolutions. That’s what voting and the democratic process is about….sometimes you lose….and you deal with it.

At this point in the game, each side is wrong in my eyes.

[PhilDernerJr]

This debate is going well, I think. I just want to remind people to refrain from name-calling and going on the personal attack. Attack the post, not the poster.

Thanks guys, and keep sharing!!

[Midnight Mike]

Quote:
Land was given to Israel in 1948 by the United Nations, and what do their Arab neighbors do, they lauch an invasion. Again in the 1950's, & again in the 1960's

I'm glad they did. Because none of the arab nations even agreed to the partition, just because the UN delegates a law, it doesn't exactely constitute it as making sense especially when a comprimise was never landed with neighboring countries to begin with. How could the UN think this plan would work when majority if all other arab nations didn't agree to this.

You are honesty, & your feelings echo the sentiment that exist in the Middle East, they simply do not want Israel there. So with that, they think it is ok to launch attacks against Israel.

They teach children that it is god's work to kill Jews, any kind of attack against Israel is ok. With this, now matter what Israel, there will never be peace in the Middle East.

[Midnight Mike]

The man was misquoted beyond death. and yes the holocaust was a great tragedy, many people died... how many times will the jews wave that flag for sympathy. From what i know the holocaust didn't become "the holocaust" until maybe 20-30 years after the war. Since then "jewish" historians have been doubling and triple'ing the number of jewish people killed. When majority of the jews realized hitlers ideals, majority of them fled from germany. Otherwise there is no possible way we could have the number of jews we have today...especially if the number the "jewish" historians claim were killed in the holocaust. It's a point the leader of a Iran has the full right to say.

Yes, the death count during the Holocaust changed numerous times, there were no official records, there were times that they would find a burial spot & that up the number of how many people died...... Remember, they had mass burials...

Look what happened during 9/11, & how many times the death count changed.....

[T-Bird76]

It also makes total sense that Israel has taken this giant offensive for two captured soldiers who aren't being hurt at all. It's also funny while Israel has been pulling out of certain settlements, it's perfectly fine that they bulldoze other palestinian settlements with people living in them. They're hipocrites.

Hyder you don't understand the mind set going on. One Jew is too many for Israel and that one person represents the entire Jewish population of Israel. It is an attack on their way of life. You may find that hard to understand but thats how the Jews think. That way of thought is a result of thousands of years of prejudice.

I'm glad they did. Because none of the arab nations even agreed to the partition, just because the UN delegates a law, it doesn't exactely constitute it as making sense especially when a comprimise was never landed with neighboring countries to begin with. How could the UN think this plan would work when majority if all other arab nations didn't agree to this.

The Arab nations weren't nations to agree or disagree, they were colonies of England and France. They showed their disagreement when they gained their independence from Europe and proceeded to invade Israel. So if you want to blame someone for firing the first bullet blame the Arab nations.

how many times will the jews wave that flag for sympathy. From what i know the holocaust didn't become "the holocaust" until maybe 20-30 years after the war. Since then "jewish" historians have been doubling and triple'ing the number of jewish people killed. When majority of the jews realized hitlers ideals, majority of them fled from germany. Otherwise there is no possible way we could have the number of jews we have today...especially if the number the "jewish" historians claim were killed in the holocaust. It's a point the leader of a Iran has the full right to say.

Your right about the large amount of Jews who left Germany but take a guess where they went? Poland, France, Belgium, Denmark, and Eastern Russia, sounds to me the very same land that was taken over by Nazi Germany. Guess what they didn't come to England and the U.S, why you ask? England and the U.S didn't want them! Its amazing how similar our mindset and Nazi Germany's mindset was about the Jews back then, very similar. As long as Holocust surviors still roams this earth any god loving person should feel sympathy for them. Will you say the same thing about 9/11 ten, twenty, thirty years from now?

Why do we know almost an exact amount of Jews killed by Nazi Germany in the gas chambers?? Because the Germans were masters at keeping highly detailed records of who was killed. The concentration camps were highly efficient factories of death. The planned destruction of the Jews wasn't a bunch of Nazi's running around killing Jews here and there. It became a part of the industry of Nazi Germany. Take a trip to Berlin and visit the National Archives of Germany. You can get a first hand look in the original record books of the almost six million Jews killed.

I have one last question for you. Where do you place your allegiance, the U.S or the Middle East?

[Hyder]

Where do you place your allegiance, the U.S or the Middle East?

That's my favorite question in the world. I am an American first and foremost, but i do have the right to disagree with our foreign policy towards other countries. And because i do disagree with our foreign policy doesn't shift my allegiance to being an American. And because i may see a situation from another point of view, doesn't make me less American than anyone else.

It's like when people ask "you support our troops or not?". Of course i support my troops, but that doesn't mean i'm not allowed to think that the war they're fighting in is garbage.

[PhilDernerJr]

Well said, Hyder.

[Midnight Mike]

This debate is going well, I think. I just want to remind people to refrain from name-calling and going on the personal attack. Attack the post, not the poster.

Thanks guys, and keep sharing!!

Up yours Phil :lol: :shock: :D :P

[K9DEP]

Where do you place your allegiance, the U.S or the Middle East?

Does it realy matter what would you do if he said Middle East? Your ignorance makes it sound like your going to tell "Big Dubya" that Hyder is putting up a good argument and he needs tio be stopped. I don't think your looking at the whole picture. Two Israeli Soldiers were kidnapped, so now Israel has the right to destroy a settlement filled with innocent women an children (and probably some nuetral men). And in all of this a T.V. station that has been bombed and runways at an International airport (which had to be damaged) had to be brought into the situation.

[T-Bird76]

Where do you place your allegiance, the U.S or the Middle East?

Does it realy matter what would you do if he said Middle East? Your ignorance makes it sound like your going to tell "Big Dubya" that Hyder is putting up a good argument and he needs tio be stopped. I don't think your looking at the whole picture. Two Israeli Soldiers were kidnapped, so now Israel has the right to destroy a settlement filled with innocent women an children (and probably some nuetral men). And in all of this a T.V. station that has been bombed and runways at an International airport (which had to be damaged) had to be brought into the situation.

First off watch who you are calling ignorant, you don't know me from a hole in the wall. It was a perfectly legitimate question, which Hyder answered, and I believe him. You lack the understanding of the Israeli and Jewish culture to make such statements. Read what I posted about the Jewish people and do some research and you will know what the big picture looks like to the Israelis. Whether or not you agree with it or not that is their mindset. That mindset will never change after many other cultures have tried to erase the Jews from the face of the earth.

[Midnight Mike]

G-8 leaders demand halt to Mideast attacks

World leaders, managing to resolve sharp differences over an escalating crisis between Israel and Lebanon, declared Sunday that extremist groups in the region cannot be allowed to plunge the Middle East into chaos and must immediately halt their attacks.

The leaders of the world's eight industrial powers issued a strong statement condemning Hezbollah militants but also urged Israel to exercise restraint in its military actions against Lebanon.

The statement said it was critical for Israel to "be mindful of the strategic and humanitarian consequences of its actions." It called on Israel "to exercise utmost restraint" by seeking to avoid casualties among innocent civilians and damage to civilian infrastructure.

"It is a strong message with a clear political content," German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters.

The statement called for two captured Israeli soldiers to be freed, for the attacks on Israel by Hezbollah militants to stop and for Israel to end its military action. It also expressed support for the Lebanese government.

The crisis has dominated talks among President Bush and the other leaders attending the annual G-8 summit of major industrial countries. The Group of Eight is made up of the United States, Russia, Japan, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, and Canada.

Israeli warplanes began striking Lebanon after Hezbollah guerrillas crossed the border on Wednesday and captured two Israeli soldiers. The guerrillas struck back at Israeli cities, and on Sunday fired a relentless barrage of rockets into the Israeli city of Haifa, dramatically escalating the conflict.

Bush and European leaders disagreed on who should be blamed for the violence, and those differences had to be overcome for the G-8 nations to issue a joint declaration.

While other G-8 leaders questioned whether Israel's response to the capture of its soldiers went too far, Bush has placed blame squarely on Hezbollah and its state sponsors — Iran and Syria — and has declined to press Israel for a cease-fire.

Bush described the escalation of violence as "a moment of clarification" that should show the world how Hezbollah is disrupting the peace process.

In their statement, the leaders expressed "deepening concern about the situation in the Middle East, in particular the rising civilian casualties on all sides and the damage to infrastructure." At least 130 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in Lebanon, while about a dozen Israeli civilians have lost their lives.

Merkel, speaking to reporters, said: "We do not want to let terrorist forces and those who support them have the opportunity to create chaos in the Middle East. Therefore we place value on clearly identifying the cause and effect of events."

She said the leaders believe that "first of all, that the Israeli soldiers must be returned unharmed, that the attacks on Israel must stop and that then, of course, also the Israeli military action must be ended."

Merkel also said they are "convinced that the government of Lebanon must be given all support and that the relevant U.N. resolutions regarding the south of Lebanon must also be implemented, and we also demand that in addition to the U.N. activities, another observation and security mission is established. That must be worked out through the U.N."

The U.N. Security Council adopted Resolution 1559 in September 2004, calling for the disarmament of all militias and strict respect for Lebanon's sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity and political independence. Hezbollah, which operates in southern Lebanon, has refused to disarm, saying it is a resistance movement.

Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared to be more in line with European leaders who have condemned Israel's attacks as excessive. Putin has said it was unacceptable for Hezbollah to take hostages and shell others' territory, but also for Israel to use massive force in response.

"It is our impression that aside from seeking to return the abducted soldiers, Israel is pursuing wider goals," Putin said. He did not elaborate.

Putin had molded this year's G-8 summit — the first hosted by his country — to showcase Russia's re-emergence on the world stage after a devastating economic collapse in 1998.

However, he failed to win a much-anticipated agreement with the U.S. on Russia's admission to the World Trade Organization, the 149-nation group that sets the rules for world trade. The United States is the only country that has not signed off on Russia's membership in the WTO, and Bush dashed Putin's hopes for getting in now.

[Tom_Turner]

And in all of this a T.V. station that has been bombed and runways at an International airport (which had to be damaged) had to be brought into the situation.

Yeah, too bad about the infrastructure huh? Should've just allowed rockets to continue to fly across the border aimed at Israeli civilians for the next ten years and not do anything about it.