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Thread: Me on the Other End of a Police/Photography Incident

  1. #1
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Me on the Other End of a Police/Photography Incident

    We all know what we go through as aviation photographers. The way we get looked at, have police called on us, and some of us even detained. Well, I've got TWO incidents from the past week that put me on the OTHER side of the situation.

    SITUATION #1: I visited my parents house and left one evening last week. As I started to drive away, I noticed a car parked across the street with a lens sticking out....aimed at my parents' house.

    I pulled a u-turn and pulled up alongside the car diagonally in front of him so to block him from leaving. I got out and asked him what he was doing taking pictures of the houses. I didn't know if he was casing the joint for a robbery or maybe to make an offer to buy the property and build a mall.

    He has an elderly woman in the backseat, and he said it was his mother and that she grew up in "that" house. I informed him that it was my house and he got excited and there was a brief exchange of conversation.

    He apologized for any alarm he caused, and I explained that it's weird because I'm usually the one being questioned about "suspicious" photography.


    Now, the more serious incident

    SITUATION #2:

    I was coming home from work a little after 5 today. As I was coming over the Whitestone Bridge, I looked to my left and saw a minivan. I noticed that BOTH the driver (male) and the passenger (female) had video cameras in their hands, filming their bridge crossing.

    Now, aside form the fact that signs specifically state no video or photography, and a driver holding a video camera is a danger to other drivers....this freaked me out. Pardon for the stereotype, but they were Middle Eastern as well.

    I pulled back, wrote the plate on my hand and came back up to observe them more.

    I got off at the first exit and pulled over and called 911. Yes, I called 911. I gave them a description and all the details and they said that they would go and get 'em.

    Now, maybe my behavior was drastic with calling 911. But, I have no problem when police approach me. It makes me feel safer, in fact. They check us out, are kind and leave us be (usually). So, in being safe int he same way, I made that call to cover bases.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

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    Hmm the second incident I'm a bit torn on..... Yes more then likely another attack on our country will come from Middle Eastern terrorists who probably look Middle Eastern so I can understand the cause for concern. However on the other hand regardless of what the PA posts on their bridges you by all means can take pictures and video tape them. They are public property, built and funded with public money. So I don't know how I'd feel if I were Tom from Ohio traveling with my wife to the Big Apple for the first time and I get a visit from NYPD or Homeland security simply because I was documenting my family vacation.

    Next time we get together Phil lets talk about this. I have my own theories on what is happening with our country and its very concerning to me. We need to end the fear.

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    The "No Photography Signs" on bridges (at least the ones near me) are not there to stop/restrict you from taking pictures (or film) of the bridges themselves. It's there because of saftey reasons, from what I'm told. They have a lot of problems with people stopping their cars on bridges to film/take a picture because it's usually a great vantage point to do so. Obviously, stopping your car on the bridge in the middle of traffic to get out or just shoot from the window can cause major problems.

    Mike

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    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff Phil I have mixed emotions about calling 9/11. A couple of people videotaping something from their vehicle on a bridge is not an emergency. It is true that it is illegal to photograph or videotape on a bridge but this is a safety and traffic flow issue. As long as you are not on the bridge you are allowed to photograph it or videotape it. It has seemed that post 9/11 a very large percent of photography (not just aviation) is deemed to be suspicious and the "better safe than sorry" approach to someone with a huge lens in public has taken root in society. I thought as time went on this would improve but this clearly is not the case. Hard to say where this will be a few years from now but it sure seems the terrorists won on 9/11. I hope the police that pulled over the vehicle were professional and not like some of the POs I have encountered on routine encounters. I applaud Phil for his vigilence and calling 911 was at the time they only way to contact law enforcement promptly.

    Quote Originally Posted by phil d
    Pardon for the stereotype, but they were Middle Eastern as well.
    http://nycaviation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2166
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

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    Re: Me on the Other End of a Police/Photography Incident

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    SITUATION #2:

    I was coming home from work a little after 5 today. As I was coming over the Whitestone Bridge, I looked to my left and saw a minivan. I noticed that BOTH the driver (male) and the passenger (female) had video cameras in their hands, filming their bridge crossing.

    Now, aside form the fact that signs specifically state no video or photography, and a driver holding a video camera is a danger to other drivers....this freaked me out. Pardon for the stereotype, but they were Middle Eastern as well.

    I pulled back, wrote the plate on my hand and came back up to observe them more.

    I got off at the first exit and pulled over and called 911. Yes, I called 911. I gave them a description and all the details and they said that they would go and get 'em.

    Now, maybe my behavior was drastic with calling 911. But, I have no problem when police approach me. It makes me feel safer, in fact. They check us out, are kind and leave us be (usually). So, in being safe int he same way, I made that call to cover bases.

    Well, Phil, you could be called a hypocrite, you saw something that made you feel uncomfortable & you called the Police, perhaps now you know the feeling when people see strange people taking photos of airplanes.

    Now, I don't blame you, it is better to err on the side of caution, but, maybe the next time the Police pull over to ask you what you are doing, perhaps somebody called the Police, because it made them feel better.
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  6. #6
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    However on the other hand regardless of what the PA posts on their bridges you by all means can take pictures and video tape them. They are public property, built and funded with public money.
    I don't think that's true. Though legal and publicly funded, the organization that runs it can enforce any rules they want. CIA headquartersis publicly funded but you cna't take pictures of that. Same goes for Air Force bases and so forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikephotos
    The "No Photography Signs" on bridges (at least the ones near me) are not there to stop/restrict you from taking pictures (or film) of the bridges themselves. It's there because of saftey reasons, from what I'm told. They have a lot of problems with people stopping their cars on bridges to film/take a picture because it's usually a great vantage point to do so. Obviously, stopping your car on the bridge in the middle of traffic to get out or just shoot from the window can cause major problems.

    Mike
    I disagree. As far as I know, those signs only showed up after 9/11 though.

    Same for the rent-a-cops that stand near the bases of bridges chasing peopel away in surrounding parks who hold up cameras to the bridges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Mike
    Now, I don't blame you, it is better to err on the side of caution, but, maybe the next time the Police pull over to ask you what you are doing, perhaps somebody called the Police, because it made them feel better.
    I've never complained about being stopped by police. I've only complained about my bad incidents with them.

    The thign is that I've seen this behavior before. This time, it creeped me out for some reason. These people did not look happy, and were freked out by my staring at them. It just didn't feel right.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

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    At the very least, it's cause for concern that someone driving a minivan while videotaping...let alone the fact that they were driving over a bridge...let alone the Whitestone Bridge (which has narrow lanes as it is, and with current construction it's VERY tight). How would you feel if you saw a whitebread business man driving on a bridge while videotaping? I'd still be concerned. It's unnecessary and dangerous, and even MORE unnecessary if the other person in your car is filming as well. I think that is that shadiest part about this. I mean, I hate driving over that bridge in my little baby Acura...it's just not safe to be distracted like that while driving. Think about the cell phone law.

    Having said that, I have to vouch for Phil that not only is he not an over-reactor, but usually just the opposite. He is very rational and doesn't jump to conclusions (well, in situations like this). When I heard that he was worried about something like that, I knew it must have looked more than suspicious.

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    [quote="Phil D."]I disagree. As far as I know, those signs only showed up after 9/11 though.[quote]

    The bridges by me had those signs long before 9|11, not sure about others.

    Mike

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    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil d
    Same for the rent-a-cops that stand near the bases of bridges chasing peopel away in surrounding parks who hold up cameras to the bridges.
    More ignorance it is perfectly fine to photograph any bridge as long as you are not on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mellyrose
    How would you feel if you saw a whitebread business man driving on a bridge while videotaping? I'd still be concerned. It's unnecessary and dangerous
    So is driving and talking on your cell phone yet millions of people do it all the time, I would not be concerned, I will not live in fear, the second this gets out of control the terrorists win.
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

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    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    Quote Originally Posted by phil d
    Same for the rent-a-cops that stand near the bases of bridges chasing peopel away in surrounding parks who hold up cameras to the bridges.
    More ignorance it is perfectly fine to photograph any bridge as long as you are not on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mellyrose
    How would you feel if you saw a whitebread business man driving on a bridge while videotaping? I'd still be concerned. It's unnecessary and dangerous
    So is driving and talking on your cell phone yet millions of people do it all the time, I would not be concerned, I will not live in fear, the second this gets out of control the terrorists win.
    First of all, if you had quoted me entirely, you'd see that I did compare it to the cell phone law...but really, you can't compare the danger of doing something that requires your hands AND eyes, to just talking on the phone.

    Also, in response to what you said to Phil, these people WERE on the bridge. They were driving over it.

  11. #11
    Moderator Matt Molnar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    So is driving and talking on your cell phone yet millions of people do it all the time, I would not be concerned, I will not live in fear, the second this gets out of control the terrorists win.
    On at least two occasions in the past couple of years, people employed by the Iranian embassy in NYC have been expelled from the United States for "behavior incompatible with their diplomatic status," aka the friendly way of saying they were spying. What did they do? They were caught videotaping sensitive areas of subways and bridges and buildings. There are limited means available for preventing bad people from infiltrating a free society. Responsible racial profiling is a good thing.
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    Moderator USAF Pilot 07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellyrose
    Having said that, I have to vouch for Phil that not only is he not an over-reactor, but usually just the opposite. He is very rational and doesn't jump to conclusions (well, in situations like this). When I heard that he was worried about something like that, I knew it must have looked more than suspicious.
    I agree with you. Anyone who knows Phil at least somewhat well should know that he's pretty level headed and rational. Sometimes you just get those "feelings" about certain situations, and having known Phil for almost 6 years, if he had one, I think he made the right decision and would have probably supported him if I was there next to him.

    Gotham also brings up a valid point.
    Not for nothing either, but it seems somewhat weird that people are filming the Whitestone Bridge. The view isn't spectacular, and the bridge isn't really known for anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07
    Not for nothing either, but it seems somewhat weird that people are filming the Whitestone Bridge. The view isn't spectacular, and the bridge isn't really known for anything.
    That's the first thing that my co-workers said when I mentioned yesterday that 2 people in a car were filming the bridge. I think that maybe a Manhattan connecting bridge might even be a little LESS suspicious, since there's more of a view and fame to it.

  14. #14
    Moderator USAF Pilot 07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellyrose
    I think that maybe a Manhattan connecting bridge might even be a little LESS suspicious, since there's more of a view and fame to it.
    Oh for sure. I was actually thinking that when I wrote my post. I could understand them filming maybe the GWB or the Verrazano or anything leading into Manhattan or with a view; but the Whitestone? Nothing really to see there....

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    Quote Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07
    ...but the Whitestone? Nothing really to see there....
    Just 22 landings! ;)

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