06/14/06 - LGA - Main Terminal

[dlx737200]

Ok so myself and my friend Joey Collura were visiting NYC last week, which we had awesome time at JFK on the 11th with all the guys who came out. Thanks again. Anyway, on the 13th, we woke up at 8am, expecting less than perfect weather but hoping for Northeasterly winds for landings on 4. So we got up, took the subway to 125th and Lexington in Manhattan and then the M60 over to LGA. As we got close, we could see landings on 22 and takeoffs on 13. Not our desired configuration so we decided to try the inside of the terminal out for shooting. The weather still wasn't great but I just wanted to get Piedmont at 10am, as Ron Peel tipped us off to. So we get inside, I call Brian Futterman. He gave me directions of where to go exactly and when we got to the top of the escalator, he told me to use the courtesy phone on the wall to call Airport Police and it shouldn't be a problem. So I did. Here was the convo:

Male Officer picks up the phone: "Airport Police!"

Me: "Hello sir. Myself and another photographer are calling to just make you aware we are placed on the third floor in the main terminal near the windows overlooking the Air Canada gates and we will be shooting some pictures for a little while if thats ok with you."

Officer: "Absolutely not. Thats a big negative sir. I'm sorry you cannot be taking pictures past security. If you take pictures from there I'll have to have an officer come and confiscate your camera gear and/or film."

Me: "No sir, we're not past security. We are on top the escalators of the main terminal overlooking the Air Canada gates."

Officer: "Well sorry you cannot be taking pictures from there."

Me: "Well we're visiting from Florida but we have friends who live here and do this quite often. From my understanding, they usually call this extension and talk to you all, and sometimes you all send out an officer to check IDs and that's that. We just want to spend a little time up here this morning getting some pictures of LaGuardia traffic. It's not usually a problem for our friends."

Officer: "Where are you at again sir?"

Me (for the third time): "We are on top the escalators of the main terminal overlooking the Air Canada gates."

Officer: "Stay where you are I'll send an officer over there."

5 minutes later, an black lady officer comes up the escalators, hangs up on a phone call she was on and starts eyeing our cameras and lenses sitting up against the windows and it goes like this:

Lady Officer: "Hello gentleman. What are we doing up here?"

Me: "Hello Officer. My name is Justin Idle. Myself and my friend Joey here are here this morning to take some pictures of LaGuardia Airport traffic. We are up here from Florida and part of the reason we have travelled up here is for this hobby."

Lady Officer: "Well I'm sorry but you all can't be doing this at this airport."

Me: "Well ma'am, it is my understanding that several of our mutual friends through this hobby who live here come to LGA often and have no problems with taking pictures. I only came here through the exact instructions given to me by one of those friends who often visits this location for photography. Why is it they can take the photos with little hassle but you won't let us?"

Lady Officer: "I do not know who gives them authorization sir but you need a permit to be up here shooting pictures."

Me: "Well if not for our sake, for our friend's sake, how does one attain this permit?"

Lady Officer: "Well they'd have to contact Port Authority Offices and get one. But you can't just come up here and take pictures. Not since 9/11."

Joey (under his breath but loud enough for her to hear out of frustration): "Yeah we've heard that excuse before."

Lady Officer (directed at Joey): "IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE!!! THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS!!" (or something to that extent)

Me: "Ma'am you have to understand our disappointment. We have traveled up here from Florida and one of our main goals for this trip was to shoot some photos at LaGuardia. We are supporting the tourism of this city, paying airfare, hotel, transportation costs, and now you're telling us we have to leave. We just endured an hour commute from Manhattan to here just to do this and you're turning us away. What does it hurt just to let us stay? You can run our IDs, we have nothing to hide. We just want to enjoy our hobby."

Lady Officer: "Well I'm sorry but you all have to put your camera gear and away and leave this area."

Me: "Fine."

We pack up our gear and I call Futt. She goes downstairs and 5 min later after I get off the phone with Futt, we go downstairs to see her at the bottom waiting to make sure we came down. We got back on the bus and went back to Manhattan. What a waste. Oh well. That was our LGA experience.

-Justin

Joey, feel free to add anything she said that I might've forgotten about.

[NIKV69]

This is why I am against calling the PA to tell them you are going to take pics. Why would you do this if you are doing nothing wrong?

Here is an exerp from this article I made reference to in the July issue of Pop Photography.

"since the terrorist attacks it was illegal photograph bridges, airports and refineries..This is a CROCK, There's no law in California or anywhere in the US that prohibits shooting such places from a public locale. You can even photograph inside airports, if you don't point your camera at security checkpoints. These laws just don't exist, a law that attempts to prohibit photography from places open to the general public would be unconstitutional"

All you did by taking Brian's advice was let the gestapo invent another law and run you off. And put us back even more than we are now.

There is no need to call anybody when you are doing something within your rights.

[dlx737200]

All you did by taking Brian's advice was let the gestapo invent another law and run you off. And put us back even more than we are now.

There is no need to call anybody when you are doing something within your rights.

Hey, as a out of towner, I was just respecting the rules and procedures of the locals, as I would expect visitors of my home airport to do. Had he not mentioned it, I would've just sat there and taken photos. No one would've probably bothered me anyway. Perhaps I should've gone with my old saying, "Tis better to ask for forgiveness than permission." However, like I said, being from Florida, I just wanted to do what was recommended to me.

[T-Bird76]

They probably saw you guys were young and said "oh easy target." I would have marched right down to the P.A's office and asked to speak to their commanding officer and requested to know what law you were breaking.

[Alex T]

They probably saw you guys were young and said "oh easy target." I would have marched right down to the P.A's office and asked to speak to their commanding officer and requested to know what law you were breaking.

Agreed. It is not illegal at all and I would have gone to and TELL THEM what my plans were and say im doing such and such. If they say it is illegal asked to be given the book/code whatever it is that states so. there won't be any.

Sorry you weren't able to experience it.

Alex

[NIKV69]

Hey, as a out of towner, I was just respecting the rules and procedures of the locals, as I would expect visitors of my home airport to do. Had he not mentioned it, I would've just sat there and taken photos. No one would've probably bothered me anyway. Perhaps I should've gone with my old saying, "Tis better to ask for forgiveness than permission." However, like I said, being from Florida, I just wanted to do what was recommended to me.

That's all well and good but all you did was make things worse. We need to KNOW our rights and act accordingly. Take Tommy's advice next time because he is spot on. I appreciate your effort in heeding Brian's advice but photographers treatment as a whole in public has gone downhill fast and if we want to have any hobby left we need to be a little more assertive and less passive.

[dlx737200]

[quote=Alex T]

They probably saw you guys were young and said "oh easy target." I would have marched right down to the P.A's office and asked to speak to their commanding officer and requested to know what law you were breaking.

Agreed. It is not illegal at all and I would have gone to and TELL THEM what my plans were and say im doing such and such. If they say it is illegal asked to be given the book/code whatever it is that states so. there won't be any.

Sorry you weren't able to experience it.

Alex[/quote:423ff]

No one ever told me it was illegal. Just that we couldn't be doing it. Trust me, had they pulled the, "it's illegal" bit, which I've been told before here in Orlando, I would have asked to be shown where it said that, as I have here in Orlando.


Being that this was not my home airport, I figured this was not my battle to fight. I will deal with my home airport's problems (MCO and TPA) and let the locals up in NYC deal with LGA. I am not a passive person. But we were also not in the mood for a major police confrontation. We were just on vacation trying to enjoy our time. I didn't want it turning too sour.

-Justin

[PhilDernerJr]

I think Justin handled this perfectly.

We were told that this is the procedure that we should use, and we've employed it for years. It is sad that we are suddenly having difficulty.

Nick, I completely understand where you are coming from, but thisis our way of cooperating with them. Sure it might be legal, but should we resist or go against the grain, it would be easy for them to actually put forth a law forbidding it. Then we have NO chance.

Justin respected our local procedures. He didn't go and run out onto the roof of a hotel at someone else's airport (Nick). HAHAHA :-p

[Mellyrose]

Justin,

We really appreciate that you went above the expectations of respecting our "turf." Especially since some people would be even more careless at airports they visit with the mentality that it wouldn't effect them in the longrun.

Even though you missed out in the end, you did do the right thing by listening to Futt's suggestion. Hopefully one day soon, we won't have to deal with such ignorance.

[NIKV69]

No one ever told me it was illegal. Just that we couldn't be doing it

What does that mean? Last I checked if a person from law enforcement tells you that you can't be doing something that is pretty clear.

As for your home airport I applaud your courtesy but you are a photographer and you were getting bullied, it is your fight.

[dlx737200]

Thanks Phil and Mel for the support. Mel, on side note, still want a print of that Times Square photo? Email me and we'll arrange something.

-Justin

[NIKV69]

our "turf."

Since when do we own the rights to our local airports? So if I travel to an airport outside of NY I have to respect the local spotters? Come on, this is about police intimidation, plain and simple. Nobody said anything about being carless either, it's merely standing up for ones rights.

[Mellyrose]

I meant our HOME TURF. I didn't mean we owned it, I just mean that it's where we spend most of our spotting time.

[NIKV69]

Also, why are you getting defensive about the careless comment, I wasn't referring to you.

I know you weren't. I just don't think we need this "our turf" concept involved with this encounter, it has nothing to do with who is from where. It's about law enforcement using ignorance and intimidation to bully someone out of doing something totally within their rights.

[mikephotos]

You screwed up at the part where you said "if it's okay with you". If you're gonna call, you should say/make it feel like you're doing it as a courtesy and not asking permission. That just left it open for them (the bad ones, most have no problem) to say no. Personally, I never call in advance because I've been shooting in the terminals for over 20 years now (long before most PA cops have even been stationed at LGA or passed their PD tests) and I've never had a problem. Everytime I'm approached, I handle it at that stage and it's always (to my luck) a positive outcome.

You tried to do the right thing and got screwed, no fault of your own...welcome to NY :) I would not have left so easily. The more they "win" these 'incidents' the worse it gets for everyone.

Mike