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Thread: I need some advice!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    As for neatimage, I don't have it and Mel just learned what it was. Do people still even use that thing?
    Probably not anyone with a decent camera.

    I have gotten a couple photos accepted on a.net taken with my old point and shoot where I used it, though, and then I've had others photos rejected where I *didn't* use it but was accused of doing so. I specifically had one appeal response that said "too much neatimage" when I had never even touched it on that image (it was a shot of a JAL 747 that had some "interesting" reflections that looked maybe oddly smoothed-over, but that was just the way those reflections looked on the smooth white skin of the plane). That basically cemented it for me that *some* of their screeners just don't even have any idea of whether something's been digitally manipulated or not, even just to reduce noise. That's pretty much when I gave up even trying to submit things; it was a situation similar to this, I guess. But I believe at that time there were many people complaining about the same thing; I do know there were a lot of newbie screeners that had just started up, so maybe it's better now.

    I'm looking at the Song photo on a calibrated Apple 23" Cinema Display HD and I don't see what the screener apparently saw. If I *really* had to guess at what he/she saw as "incorrect use of features or intentional alteration", I would say maybe it's the rear wheels (the actual wheels) that are the problem; they're completely blacked out, whereas the shadow from the wings doesn't look like it should be quite that strong. They may have thought the contrast had been bumped up too high and then the white point set incorrectly. (Again, different screeners could and obviously do see things totally differently, though.) Could probably be fixed by starting from the original again. It would be that much easier if you've got a RAW file of it, which would probably have a bit more dynamic range that you could exploit, and without being destructive to the image.

  2. #17
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    Ok. I just did a reedit of one of my favorite shots that was rejected from Anet. I used Monty's technique. (Remember, I'm doing this on a laptop, so it might not be perfect, still)

    Here is my ORIGINAL edit:


    and then the reedit:


    Which do you guys think looks better? I know it's subtle, but I really am striving for perfection here. :)

  3. #18
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    I know I'm a n00b here (not on a.net), but just another opinion to add to your pile...

    Which do you guys think looks better?
    The second one definitely has lower contrast and slightly higher brightness. I'm on my wife's laptop now though and her screen sucks :)

    I originally thought the first one was better and the second washed out, but simply tilting the screen on this thing down made the first one look too contrasty and the second one fine, as far as exposure.

    But check the tail. Look very closely. Look at the diagonals, the edges. Compare to the original. I see photos like this on a.net from time to time and I honestly am never sure how they get through. This is most likely a resizing/sharpening artifact. You did it properly the first time; the second time, you ended up with jagged edges. (You can see the same effect on the flaps on the left wing.)

    I think some combination of what you did with brightness/contrast on the second one, with the sharpening/resizing method you used on the first would probably be right.

    What was the reason for the original rejection given on this one? Just curious if it was contrast or something else.

  4. #19
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    This one was also contrast issues. I was very disappointed with this reject, as it is probably my favorite shot (even though its just an A300) of my own, so far.

    Though I've been using Photoshop for years, I am just trying to fine tune my plane photo editing skills....I think that with everyone's advice I'm getting closer to a comfort level.

    Thanks!

    :-D

  5. #20
    Senior Member Mr Smith's Avatar
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    jaggies are a pain in the tit to avoid, no matter how hard you try the just keep producing milk! interesting analogy i know :) Mel, you can use lower USM settings also, 45 is not a concrete amount, i find AA is one of the harder ones to edit because of the color in baremetal, that being said you image on my LCD doesn't have jags at all...might be just this site has compressed it a little.

  6. #21
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    wow, and that is why I can be bothered with anet.

    You take the photo and you touch it up, but Anet standards are not about being a photographer as much as being a photoshopper. what a PITA. Mel you have great photo skills but according to anet, jsut your ps skills need to be worked on..

    man, life is too short. i mean seriously. The difference is so sublime that it causes one to lose the forest for the trees. its a great photo for mel's sake!



    Oh, and BTW, that shot that was most popular on jpet??? rejected by anet an hour ago.....I am hardly surprised.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

  7. #22
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    Why did they reject it Mario?

  8. #23
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    And what's really ****ty, is that I AM a skilled photoshopper. It's just frustrating for me knowing that because of certain personal opinions, my work may not be acknowledged.

    :?

  9. #24
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    I wouldn't get that bent out of shape over it, if A.net or JP.net rejects something big deal, if you can fix it go ahead but if you can't move on.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrodie
    wow, and that is why I can be bothered with anet.

    You take the photo and you touch it up, but Anet standards are not about being a photographer as much as being a photoshopper. what a PITA. Mel you have great photo skills but according to anet, jsut your ps skills need to be worked on..

    man, life is too short. i mean seriously. The difference is so sublime that it causes one to lose the forest for the trees. its a great photo for mel's sake!



    Oh, and BTW, that shot that was most popular on jpet??? rejected by anet an hour ago.....I am hardly surprised.
    Uh-oh...it's anti-a.net time again. :roll:

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bird76
    I wouldn't get that bent out of shape over it, if A.net or JP.net rejects something big deal, if you can fix it go ahead but if you can't move on.
    Ahhhh....the soothing voice of reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellyrose
    And what's really ****ty, is that I AM a skilled photoshopper. It's just frustrating for me knowing that because of certain personal opinions, my work may not be acknowledged.
    Mel, hang in there. The Photoshop skills used for this very narrow type of photography are obviously a little different than the Photoshop skills you might use for other applications. You just have to train yourself to use the same tools in a different manner. It is clear from your posts and your examples of work that you have a solid command of Photoshop, so don't worry too much.

    I love the Song banner in your signature, by the way! Way cool!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrodie
    man, life is too short. i mean seriously. The difference is so sublime that it causes one to lose the forest for the trees. its a great photo for mel's sake!
    I agree, though now that I've seen the comparison again on a good screen (I'm back on my work Cinema Display HD), I see way more jaggies than I could last night in the second photo. Basically all down the cheat lines of the livery on the fuselage. The second version is definitely worse.

    There is also very little difference in the contrast when looking at these on an Apple monitor, and they both look fine in that regard (the difference is so slight that it's hard to say which one is "right", but they both look fine). I don't have much doubt that many of the contrast rejections on a.net are coming from screeners working on 2.2 gamma PC's looking at photos edited on 1.8 gamma Macs.

    Anyway, the first version is better simply because of the jaggies on the second. Whatever resizing and sharpening methods were used there were not right.

    I wouldn't really worry about getting acceptances to a.net... they've got their stable of photographers that the screeners are used to accepting hundreds of photos from a week and you basically have to emulate them to have any chance at this point. They're locked into sort of a tunnel vision about what aviation photographs are supposed to look like. (I was told by a screener once quite specifically that their idea of proper composition has nothing to do with proper photographic composition. Their position is that aviation photography and other forms of photography are mutually exclusive.) That said, even if you do a good job at emulating the right style, they'll still pick random things out to reject you for pretty often.

    I personally haven't thought it was even worth uploading to them for a while now, but that doesn't mean I won't ever again now that I've moved to a place where I'll probably be taking a lot more aviation photos. But I definitely agree with whoever said it's really not worth getting worked up over. A good photo is still a good photo, whatever the screeners at a.net say about it. They're less interested in "good photos" than they are in simple documentation, as the aforementioned conversation I mentioned above confirmed to me. (And really, there's nothing strictly wrong with that; they're not a photography site, they're a site about airliners.)

  12. #27
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    Hmm. Every single one of you made fantastic points. I guess I AM a little bit biased about Anet and JP because of all of the mumbo jumbo debate over the 2 sites here on the boards.

    I feel that both sites have great quality photographs, but I think the challenge of Anet is what I am seeking in some aspect. As much as I am not a competitive person, there is an undeniable undertone surrounding these sites. Yes, every form of art that I enjoy, I enjoy for myself, but if you can't share it and have it appreciated, it is not fulfilling the potential it has, as art.

    It's satisfying getting my work on Jetphotos, and that is where I plan to "showcase" the majority of my shots, especially once I have my own camera and more freedom...I guess that getting an Anet shot just feels almost like I've "won" something at this point...considering I only have about 10-15 upload-worthy shots, from 2 spotting outings.

    I'm looking forward to spotting again and having a fresh batch to work on and edit...I have some ideas on how to fine-tune some of my editing techniques....thanks to everyone! :mrgreen:


    P.S. Thanks for the compliments on the Song Banner! As soon as I saw that shot of Art's I knew I wanted to do something with it. I thought it was cute...kind of a double meaning since the planes look like they're ready to kiss and "make music"....they are Songs after all! And OF COURSE, I had to make one pink

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellyrose
    I'm looking forward to spotting again and having a fresh batch to work on and edit...I have some ideas on how to fine-tune some of my editing techniques....thanks to everyone! :mrgreen:
    I have over 1000 photos that I took in a week you're more then welcome to help yourself to a bach of them, lol

  14. #29
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    Actually, Tommy...I may take you up on that offer! I'd love to have some practice material. PM me, kid.

  15. #30
    Moderator mirrodie's Avatar
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    Uh-oh...it's anti-a.net time again.


    Hey Josh? Quit being a tool, eh? You are slowly transcending the boundaries of stoogedom.


    Im not anti anet. (besides, I am involved there anyway, so how you figure?)
    I simply have different goals. And if I can share my fun on jpnet with my friends, then I'd rather invest time uploading to anet in other ways.
    And I, I took the path less traveled by
    and that has made all the difference......yet...
    I have a feeling a handle of people are going to be very interested in what I post in the near future.

    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=187

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