Port Authority: Fourth Big Airport May Be Needed In Metro NY

[Futterman]

http://www.wnbc.com/news/4632214/detail.html

The news report on TV said that McGuire and Stewart AFBs are viable alternatives...

It's an interesting concept, but I find it amazing how our current airport situation purportedly can't handle these hundred million people. There are obviously snags in efficiency at JFK, LGA, and EWR (don't ask me what), so before anybody jumps the gun and dredges up a Kansai, perhaps some funds can be allocated towards the modernization and streamlining of what we already have.

Brian

[USAF Pilot 07]

I don't see how McGuire would be a viable alternative.

I would think the problem lies mainly with LGA and somewhat with JFK, rather than EWR. McGuire would just attract people away from EWR and PHL and not really help the situation at LGA and JFK.

Stewart AFB, again I would think, is too far north to attract flyers from the Tri-State area on a large enough scale to make it a major airport, and alleviate some of the problems at JFK and LGA. Plus, many passengers from the side West of the Hudson use EWR so they don't have to come into NYC.

There's really no room in NYC for an additional airport, except for land around existing airports (such as Floyd Bennett Field). I would think an additional airport at Floyd Bennett Field would be useless and dangerous as it would interfere with JFK ops.

THe only other alternative is somewhere on Western L.I. or in NJ. The problem with Western L.I. is attracting NYC (other than Queens and Brooklyn) fliers. You'd have to be very convincing to get people from Manhattan, Bx, SI and Western Qns and BK to travel to Long Island to fly, when LGA and JFK are much closer.

Me thinks that ISP needs to be focused on more, and given much more attention than it currently is getting.

ISP needs to become more like ONT or LGB, that are close to LAX, but attract people mainly from the outskirts of LA.

Worse come to worst, you could turn TEB into a commercial airport, offer a one seat rail ride from Manhattan to TEB, and then rezone some land in NJ and make it a "super" business airport.

Just some ideas.

[Tower Air]

that'll be the day

[PhilDernerJr]

People act as though the 3 NYC airports are running at capacity, when they aren't.

JFK is dead to me it seems. A lot of this is because of the economy and NYC not being as high in ranking among business cities in the world like it was. If/as those economic conditions change, you might see an upswing, but I just don't know.

As for LGA, when an airport that size has 50% of its traffic being RJs....it doesn't matter how many flights out of it you have a day....that's not running at capacity. You have a slot for a 50 seat RJs that could be used to a 300 passenger 767-400. Same with wasted gate space. A CRJ at the Air Canada gate where there could be a 767-300.

And that's what I think we need in NYC. I think LGA is the only airport that would grow if given the chance. Once you remove the RJ flights, you open up more chances for medium range flights.

So if we could get an airport like TEB that is close just to handle the regional flights, that would help a lot. Leave TEB with corporate flights, though. I don't think the two can be mixed, as then it would really be packed.

[PhilDernerJr]

Oh, and it would be nice if they made the Airtrain a little more useful at JFK. Transferring. Stupid.

[GrummanFan]

I remember seeing this show on PBS where they discussed a new flight system being developed by NASA or some other group. It involved slowly getting rid of the bigger jets and the hub-and-spoke system of today and replacing it with many, many smaller, local airports. Airlines at these airports would fly smaller jets that would accomodate no more than 50 ppl per flight. The result would be more flights, more ppl moved per a period of time, less of a wait, and possibly a better flying experience. Air traffic would get much denser, but that wouldn't be too much of a problem if better GPS and navigational systems were devleoped. Obviously this kind of thing would be wayyy in the future, and certain bugs can be worked out of todays airports to make them work more efficently now, but do you think that this could be a possible solution to overcrowding in the future?

[Futterman]

...a new flight system being developed by NASA or some other group. It involved slowly getting rid of the bigger jets and the hub-and-spoke system of today and replacing it with many, many smaller, local airports. Airlines at these airports would fly smaller jets that would accomodate no more than 50 ppl per flight...

Phil already mentioned how this is being applied at LGA. Neither futuristic nor a cureall.

I've seen shows that discussed theories similar to the one you mentioned, only they emphasize GENERAL aviation instead of huge airlines and aircraft. Many small airports and pilotless aircraft flying established highways in the sky, ferrying people who don't know how to fly from point A to point B. A network of AirTaxis, I believe they called it.

Brian

[IslipWN]

Can someone say ISP????


I vote ISP as a new candidate for this fourth airport! Whos with me?

[moose135]

The only other alternative is somewhere on Western L.I. or in NJ. The problem with Western L.I. is attracting NYC (other than Queens and Brooklyn) fliers. You'd have to be very convincing to get people from Manhattan, Bx, SI and Western Qns and BK to travel to Long Island to fly, when LGA and JFK are much closer.

I don't think a western LI location works. Just thinking theoretically, it would have to offer a wide mix of flight times and destinations to get people away from the city - as you say, with JFK & LGA in Qns, they are the logical departure point for most city residents. You may get Nassau & Western Suffolk residents there, but Eastern Suffolk is going to use ISP. I flew out of ISP for the first time a couple of weeks ago (I'm in Syosset, eastern Nassau), and was amazed at how easy is was.

Now as to the real world - a new airport in Western LI just ain't gonna happen - there is absolutely no place to put it, and even if you find a spot, the local NIMBYs won't let you get near the design stage, let alone groundbreaking. They are talking about upgrading/widening the taxiways at FRG, and the locals are just about ready to chain themselves across the runway because the think it's a plot to lengthen the runways and allow more and bigger jets in.

I think on LI, the only way to go is to further develop ISP.

[Futterman]

In my original post, I alluded to an island-airport, which is always a possibility.

Granted, even aquatic space is limited with few bodies of water both unprotected and big enough for serious development. JFK's enough for Jamaica Bay, and LGA tops off Flushing Bay. The LI Sound is too far away, and most other places just don't work.

Perhaps the most viable would be just off of the Rockaways, in the Atlantic Ocean. You'd have a bit of an Orion's Belt constellation of airports, with LGA on the top of Queens, JFK at the bottom, and XYZ two miles past the end of Cross Bay Blvd.

Dredging this amount of land for an airport is nothing new, especially on a local scale--80 years ago, almost all of the land JFK and LGA are currently on was either water or just really really wet. Japan's been having some fun with island-airports, too. The only thing I'm not sure of is how deep the ocean is offshore, and if it's even possible. But still.

I can't see a 15 minute drive from JFK being such a hinderance to people that already find JFK and LGA convenient, and once you go out into the Atlantic, there aren't really any hard constraints on size. There shouldn't be many NIMBYs, and airspace should not pose much of a threat to Kennedy's (if they can't even be integrated with eachother).

Haha...NIMBYs in the middle of the Atlantic...

Brian

[Matt Molnar]

Reclaim Roosevelt Field!

[jetBlueAtJFK]

Reclaim Roosevelt Field!

LOL, isn't that where Roosevelt Field Mall is now. If it is, then NO. Where will we shop, lol.


I watched something on News12 this morning about this and they said it is possible that ISP will grow with more flights in the future.

jetBlueAtJFK :D

[Matt Molnar]

LOL, isn't that where Roosevelt Field Mall is now. If it is, then NO. Where will we shop, lol.

Online! Malls are so, like, 1994. :)

[USAF Pilot 07]

I can't see a 15 minute drive from JFK being such a hinderance to people that already find JFK and LGA convenient, and once you go out into the Atlantic, there aren't really any hard constraints on size. There shouldn't be many NIMBYs, and airspace should not pose much of a threat to Kennedy's (if they can't even be integrated with eachother).

Haha...NIMBYs in the middle of the Atlantic...

LOL... Yea instead of NIMBY's we'd be dealing with environmentalists, PETF (People for the ethical treatment of Fish.. lol) and many of thoes nuts...

Although the idea isn't terrible, building such an airport would surely costs BILLIONS of dollars the city along with the PANYNJ doesn't have.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Can someone say ISP????


I vote ISP as a new candidate for this fourth airport! Whos with me?

Yea read above. I said ISP needs to be given much more attention to, and needs to become similar to what ONT and LGB are to LAX.