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Thread: ISP April 14th SCPD and their Gestapo tactics.

  1. #1
    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    ISP April 14th SCPD and their Gestapo tactics.

    I have been asked by Phil to post my encounter with SCPD on the afternoon of 4/14. I was shooting in the Washington Mutual Bank parking lot from approx 4pm to 5:30pm or so when a cruiser pulled up. I am going to post my original thread from airliners.net. It is pretty much self-explanatory. There may be a little confusion as to the sentence about my car being searched. SCPD never entered my car. I meant that they got back in one of their cruisers after one of them inspected my car from the outside. One of the things that you really have to pay notice to is how these police behaved. Not very professional at all. I loved the threats at the end of my tint. A typical Gestapo tactic. I should have told her to write me the ticket but I didn't stoop to her level.

    Here it is.

    Yet again!

    I got off early today and noticed the sky was absolutely beautiful and clear and decided to head to ISP for a quick spotting session. I decided on the Washington Mutual Bank parking lot on the corner of Lakeland and Vet's Highway. Got there about 3:30 and spent two hours spotting and getting pics. Then not surprisingly a SCPD cruiser comes right up to me. A male and female Officer come up to me and start giving me the ol' "After 9/11 what you are doing is illegal" Where I reply that they are mistaken. She gets real mad and they start right in with the Gestapo tactics. Who are you, why do you do this blah blah blah! I then decide it's time to drop my cousins name who is a Captain with the SCPD. The male Officer who was obviously the senior training Officer tells me he knows him and all of a sudden their tones change. The girl is still pissed that I called her bull**** and asks for my ID. I give it to her and then I start talking to the other Officer again who turns out to be a pilot with 60 hours on fixed wing he also says he has heard of this site. Then another cruiser pulls up with another guy who has a really bad attitude and asks me for all this info including my SS#, which I tell him he is not getting. He looks at me but I stand my ground and tell him I don't give that out because their is no need to since I am not a criminal and what I am doing is not illegal, he backs down and then goes over to my car which he inspects and then gets in the car with the girl who is doing God knows what. I then get asked for my occupation and work address and #, which I give. Then the cool guy says I am right that what I am doing is not illegal but that the TSA "Frowns upon such things" Well hell a lot of people "Frown upon" a lot of things. Doesn't make them wrong or illegal. Then he gets in the car and the girl comes out and gives me my ID and asks me why my car doesn't have a front license plate. I make up this story that a car nosed into a parking spot and broke the bracket and I am waiting for the part from the dealer. She buys it and then tells me the other Officer noticed my tint is too dark (Like I care) More Gestapo tactics. (Threats) Since the sun was getting low and I had snapped about 125 pics and saw a good amount of planes for a last minute spotting trip I decided not to press the issue and got in my car and left.

    I just hope my fellow spotters and photographers continue to stand up to this. I am getting tired of this treatment but I love to take pictures and I love planes so I am not going to stop going there or any other airport.

    Keep up the fight!

    If you would like to view the whole thread here is the link.

    http://www.airliners.net/discussions/av ... in/176333/
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  2. #2
    Senior Member Vodkagirlkris's Avatar
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    They'll just look for any reason to mess with you. It's screwed up. Generally, I like cops but it's things like that that piss me off.

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    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    It's intimidation. Plain and simple. If they want to bully you even with laws that don't exist they will try and test you. I do not like that. Treat me like a law abiding citizen until you know otherwise for a fact.

    Vodkagirl,

    I like that picture! WOW :D
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

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    Senior Member Futterman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    Vodkagirl,

    I like that picture! WOW :D
    Agreed. Those should solve just about any problem we have with cops. 8)


    Nick, you're definitely right when you say, "I love to take pictures and I love planes so I am not going to stop going there or any other airport." That's a great attitude to have, and your reaction was fine seeing as you were 100% within the law.

    The catch is that, even when we get ass-faced cops, unless we're illegally detained to have property searched there's nothing anyone can do about it. You can go through the ranks with complaints, but you'll very quickly find that first boss you speak to says photography is fine and there's no problem (at least that's the case with the PANYNJ). That's where it usually ends.

    But good job. I do have one suggestion that I hope you'll take into consideration:

    Althoug the bank whose parking lot you spot in may not seem to have a problem with you being there, take the initiative to speak to the manager and let him know you're there and what you'll be doing. Then give the SCPD a call, speak to a higher-up, and make them aware of who you are, what you do, and the fact that the establishment you are on has granted you permission.

    You may not like the fact that you should go through all that trouble just to do something you love, but it's better to talk to the cops on good terms than none at all. We're making progress, and this is the way we're doing it. We can't just be anonymous people with cameras at planes babbling on about civil liberties without some real relationship with the skeptics.


    Brian
    "My wife is an air traffic controller. I married her because I've always wanted to screw the FAA." - B. Wulle

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    Senior Member lijk604's Avatar
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    Just a thought...

    Has anyone ever gone to ISP to spot/take phots, and find a cop trolling the airport first to ask them if they have an issue with it? Maybe I'm off base here, but instead of making them (the cops) think we are trying to do something illegal, or behind their backs, maybe if we asked one first, "Hey is ok if I sit here for a while and take some photos? And if it's okay, can I have your card in case another PO gives me a hard time?" Maybe the SCPD wouldn't be so rough on us? Again, just a thought, but if we ask permission first, that still gives them that feeling of power over us civilians. Couldn't hurt right? What's the worst they say, NO? At least then you just go on your way and there are no license checks, car searches etc.

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    Senior Member Vodkagirlkris's Avatar
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    Yeah, they keep me out of trouble with the cops.

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    Re: Just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by lijk604
    Has anyone ever gone to ISP to spot/take phots, and find a cop trolling the airport first to ask them if they have an issue with it? Maybe I'm off base here, but instead of making them (the cops) think we are trying to do something illegal, or behind their backs, maybe if we asked one first, "Hey is ok if I sit here for a while and take some photos? And if it's okay, can I have your card in case another PO gives me a hard time?" Maybe the SCPD wouldn't be so rough on us? Again, just a thought, but if we ask permission first, that still gives them that feeling of power over us civilians. Couldn't hurt right? What's the worst they say, NO? At least then you just go on your way and there are no license checks, car searches etc.

    Thats a very good idea!

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    Senior Member UrbanExplorer222's Avatar
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    lijk604, that is a good idea. No harm ever came from asking a question........well maybe sometimes ;) but not this time. I wish it was 2nd precinct i know about 1/2 of em :lol:

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    Senior Member NIKV69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Futterman
    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69


    But good job. I do have one suggestion that I hope you'll take into consideration:

    Althoug the bank whose parking lot you spot in may not seem to have a problem with you being there, take the initiative to speak to the manager and let him know you're there and what you'll be doing. Then give the SCPD a call, speak to a higher-up, and make them aware of who you are, what you do, and the fact that the establishment you are on has granted you permission.


    Brian
    Why don't I call the SCPD, the FBI, the tower while I am at it. Maybe I can call Southwest too, hey while I'm at it call COEX too and let them know I am coming. By the time I am done it will be dark outside!

    To hell with that! :roll:

    As Matt Celmer said "We are doing nothing wrong" I see no need to start calling people and telling them what I am doing. I am an American and this is a free country. I am not breaking the law so I don't feel the need to start calling everybody but Grandma Moses so I can spot.

    IslipWN and lijk604,

    I don't like that idea, we don't need to ask permission to do something that is totally legal. AIRLINE PHOTOGRAPHY IS NOT A CRIME!

    VodkagirlKris,

    I can imagine! They are quite nice, you are herby invited to spot with me whenever you like! :lol:
    'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol

  10. #10
    Senior Member cancidas's Avatar
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    futt... you seem not understand what i keep saying about "flying under the radar." while PAPD likes to know when there are people spotting near the airport, not every agency is as welcoming as they are.

    brian, could you please for once listen to the advice other people are giving out?
    it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Futterman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIKV69
    Why don't I call the SCPD, the FBI, the tower while I am at it. Maybe I can call Southwest too, hey while I'm at it call COEX too and let them know I am coming. By the time I am done it will be dark outside!

    To hell with that! :roll:

    As Matt Celmer said "We are doing nothing wrong" I see no need to start calling people and telling them what I am doing. I am an American and this is a free country. I am not breaking the law so I don't feel the need to start calling everybody but Grandma Moses so I can spot.
    I don't want to start anything here, but I seriously disagree with your mentality. Just because we're doing something that is not in violation of established laws does not mean we don't have have a responsibility--a responsibility you are completely disregarding.

    We're the only ones that can secure this hobby (and even have a desire to do so). You're right when you say that airline photography is not a crime, but apparently some cops don't know that. Just waiting until officers come up to you with an attitude is not the way to fix this. You have to take the initiative, you have to take the first step in either being cooperative or not being there at all. We all have to. Especially in a touchy situation like this.

    While calling the SCPD beforehand may not yeild the same results as it would with the PAPD, there is still action to be taken with other forms of local government. Correspondance with important figures is one of the best chances we have at a beneficial reaction in any way, shape, or form. You can ask Phil to do that on behalf of NYCAviation, but he'll need your support.

    I do respect what you have to say, so please reciprocate. No hard feelings.


    Quote Originally Posted by cancidas
    futt... you seem not understand what i keep saying about "flying under the radar." while PAPD likes to know when there are people spotting near the airport, not every agency is as welcoming as they are.

    brian, could you please for once listen to the advice other people are giving out?
    Nothing I've ever heard has sounded more criminal than that. "Flying under the radar"? If an agency is not as welcoming as another, how can being sneaky and private help our cause?

    That's EXACTLY what terrorists are doing. By us doing the complete opposite, by us communicating with authorities (SCPD included), we establish ourselves as a peaceful, anti-terrorist group of enthusiasts.


    Brian
    "My wife is an air traffic controller. I married her because I've always wanted to screw the FAA." - B. Wulle

  12. #12
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    I think certain strategies work in certain places and not in others.

    I think ISP has been a perfect example time and time again of how an airport should NOT act in cases of aviation enthusiasm. I think their ignorance is so bad that we msut now go over their heads to their bosses and county officials.

    I think stopping in the office to check-in would result in them sending you home.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil D.
    I think certain strategies work in certain places and not in others.

    I think ISP has been a perfect example time and time again of how an airport should NOT act in cases of aviation enthusiasm. I think their ignorance is so bad that we msut now go over their heads to their bosses and county officials.

    I think stopping in the office to check-in would result in them sending you home.
    Phil if you know anything about Islip Town you'll know why Islip is such a pain in the a$$. The Islip Town Supervisor Pete McGowan aka the Furher is a simply a total jacka$$. He's even gone as far as breaking New York state law and dressing the ISP security guards up as Islip Town Police, even their cars say Islip Police. Islip Town has no Police force; these guys and one blonde bitch (sorry had to say it) are impersonating real Police, and he gets away with it.

    On an off Topic ISP was conducting emergency drills today, I was so temped to stop and take some pics but I was running late.

  14. #14
    Administrator PhilDernerJr's Avatar
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    Is there any way that we can complain about that to the county or state? I'm pretty sure it is illegal for a security team to claim to be a police force.

    I remember the Queensborough President Helen Marshall got in toruble because she put lights on her chauffered car similar to an undercover police car. That's a serious offense.
    Email me anytime at [email protected].

  15. #15
    Senior Member cancidas's Avatar
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    That's EXACTLY what terrorists are doing. By us doing the complete opposite, by us communicating with authorities (SCPD included), we establish ourselves as a peaceful, anti-terrorist group of enthusiasts.
    futterman... what guarantee do you have that you doing what you say will definately have the outcome you want it to have?
    it is mathematically impossible for either hummingbirds, or helicopters to fly. fortunately, neither are aware of this.

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