MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards

[PhilDernerJr]

So the MTA is proposing a hike, not of the regular $2 fare, but to decrease the savings when using unlimited cards.

Here is what will probably be happening:

• [list:02b1c]-1-Day Fun Pass: Increases from $7 to $7.50
  
  -7-Day Pass: Increases from $24 to $25*
  
  -New 14-Day Pass: $47* (*Current 7-Day Pass users who switch to the new 14-Day Pass will actually enjoy a fare reduction.)
  
  -30-Day Pass: Increases from $76 to $81
  
  -Express Bus Base Fare: Remains $5
  
  -Express Bus 7-Day Pass: Remains $41

[/list:u:02b1c]


Now, when you read that, consider this.

The average person has a 5-day work week. There are 4 weeks in a month, and therefore 20 working days per month.

$4 per-per-ride, per day (to work and back).

$4 x 20 = $80

new 1-month unlimited: price $81.

Not only did they decrease the savings for buying an unlimited Metrocard, but they made it more expensive to do so.

OMGBBQI<3SPITZER!!11!1!!1!

[adam613]

I normally try to avoid linking to nytimes.com, but this was especially relevant to the topic at hand...

Should You Change Your MetroCard Habits? Math Says, Stay the Course.

[Mellyrose]

WTF?! I'm BARELY saving money now by getting the unlimited. This is freaking ridiculous.

[USAF Pilot 07]

OK, I'll go ahead and play devils advocate here. $81 a month to ride a public transportation system that runs 24/7 as much as you want and as far as you want is a great deal!

In most cities public transportation is not an option. A full tank of gas, which if lucky will last a week, runs generally no less than $60. Add to that the cost of maintaining that car, paying insurance on that car and the other costs associated with owning a car, and you're looking at spending many times well over $400 a month to get you around. You need none of this in NYC!

There should be incentives for riding public transportation, namely cost, but overall, public transportation is still much more reliable and much, much more "cost-efficient" than owning and maintaining a car.

With the rising costs of gas, insurance and maintenance, it's only natural for fare hikes to take place. A $5 a month hike for a monthly card is more than fair.

[PhilDernerJr]

Clark, I agree that we get off cheap. But the point is that getting an unlimited card is supposed to be an INCENTIVE to ride the train as opposed to driving. This helps congestion and also is good for the environment.

By making the cost of an unlimited card higher than one would pay for a month's worth of pay-per-rides, they remove that incentive for people to do what is good for many reasons.

[LGA777]

I commute 5-6 days a week from the Bronx to LGA and although there are ways to avoid the toll bridges (Triboro or Whitestone) they add about 45 mins each way to my commute so not worth it normally. Anyway I drive normally 1-3 days most months, $8 in tolls r/t, and approx $6 in gas r/t or about $14 total not counting wear and tear on the olde Maxima. But the majority of time I use a subway bus combo with the occasional Metro North ride to or from 125th street in Harlem.

Even with proposed slight fare hikes I will continue to use Public Transportation the majority of the time and the new $47 two week unlimited Metro Card sounds great !

LGA777

[stuart schechter]

When I go into the city to spot, I buy the fun pass and it always works out great and in my favor.


$2 to LGA, then,
$2 back from where ever I was spotting.
$2 back to the city because bus doesn't transfer to subway
$2 out on the subway to Cargo plaza.
$2 back into the city and then wherever else I decide to go.

Definitely in my favor.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Clark, I agree that we get off cheap. But the point is that getting an unlimited card is supposed to be an INCENTIVE to ride the train as opposed to driving. This helps congestion and also is good for the environment.

By making the cost of an unlimited card higher than one would pay for a month's worth of pay-per-rides, they remove that incentive for people to do what is good for many reasons.

I'd argue that the incentive is still there. Even if you raise the unlimited monthly card to $100, the average rider would save thousands of dollars annually over driving. Even if the pay-per-ride becomes more economical for someone who only uses public transportation ONLY to go to and from work, the unlimited ride is a much better deal for those who take a few more trips a month than just to and from work.

If there are on average 20 working days a month (without holidays it's probably more like 21-22 since most months are a little over 4 weeks), you'd save $1 if you ONLY used public transportation to and from work everyday. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that most riders with monthly cards use public transportation on weekends or maybe more than once daily. The extra cost of a dollar is definitely worth the benefit of having a card that you can use whenever, wherever as many times as you want.

I don't think the increase in monthly cards by $5 is going to all of a sudden turn those two trips a day commuters into drivers. The MTA could raise the price of an unlimited to $200 (not that I'd advocate this) and it would still be cheaper to use only public transportation than it would be to drive a car to and from work daily.

[Smartass Flyboy]

but overall, public transportation is still much more reliable and much, much more "cost-efficient" than owning and maintaining a car.

:shock: <COUGH> <CHOKE> :shock:

:?: You must be using the new math. :?:


Now let's try this with the math I learned in high school.

I live in Eastern Suffolk and drive to JFK. Basically 60 miles each way 5 days a week. My import econobox gets roughly 30 miles per gallon and tonight I paid $3.19 per gallon for gas. 60x2=120 miles per day. 120/30=4 gallons of gas per day. 4x3.19=$12.76 per day.

LIRR monthly ticket Ronkoma to Jamaica is $217.56 (includes web ticket 2% discount). Parking at Ronkonkoma is $4 per day and Airtrain monthly is $40 per month. $217.56/20=$10.88 per day for LIRR $40/20=$2.00 per day for Airtrain. $10.88+$4.00(parking)+$2.00=$16.88 per day. So taking the train is already over $4.00 per day more expensive than driving and that is before I point out that I still have to drive 13 miles each way to catch the train. :o

Now for the truly fun part. I can make the drive in 55-60 minutes on average and 70 minutes if I need to be there at say 8AM. The train including drive to Ronkonkoma, LIRR to Jamaica, and Airtrain to terminal is minimum of 2 hours each way. Oh yeah if we have OSO and I leave after 1AM, forget it no eastbound trans until after 3. :shock: :evil:

:x So now let's add it up, LIRR takes 1 hour longer each way and costs me an additional $4.00 per day. Yeah, public transportation is so much more reliable and cost effective, NOT! :x

[PhilDernerJr]

You're leaving stuff out, SmartassFlyboy. First, I think he meant the MTA subway/bus system, which is what these unlimited cards are for and what we're talking about.

In addition, you left out the cost of car insurance, car maintenance, or any tickets you may get throughout the year. That is already thousands of dollars a year, and it does not mention a car/loan payment that many people make as well. By using public transportation, I literally save as much as $6,000 a year, and that's before the cost of the car.

For people who live in Queens, taking the train also means not having to do with the hassle of time spent in traffic and looking for parking. Time is money to me, and instead of dealing with that annoyance, I'd rather have a seat on the subway and enjoy a good book.

[Mellyrose]

Which side are you on, Phil? :?:

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm all for public transportation, especially as a cost-effective alternative to automobiles. I just think that the fare hike is idiotic.

[Smartass Flyboy]

You're leaving stuff out, SmartassFlyboy. First, I think he meant the MTA subway/bus system, which is what these unlimited cards are for and what we're talking about.

In addition, you left out the cost of car insurance, car maintenance, or any tickets you may get throughout the year. That is already thousands of dollars a year, and it does not mention a car/loan payment that many people make as well. By using public transportation, I literally save as much as $6,000 a year, and that's before the cost of the car.

For people who live in Queens, taking the train also means not having to do with the hassle of time spent in traffic and looking for parking. Time is money to me, and instead of dealing with that annoyance, I'd rather have a seat on the subway and enjoy a good book.

My PO'd rant had more to do with the fact I hate driving and as a result really hate the LIRR for being set up for only people that work 9 to 5 M-F in the city. It sucks for anyone on a non traditional schedule and/or that commutes intra LI or to Queens/Brooklyn.

As to costs I left out, my car insurance is only $650 a year full coverage (I still have the MN plates on the car), have only received 1 ticket in 4 years (and I beat that one) due Radar/Laser detector and staying with trafic flow, have a cheap econobox with no payments owed, and even with full brakes, AC compessor, bearings, 4 tires, and a 4 wheel alignment this year my maint costs are only $750 for the year which is $63 per month. It works out to under $4.00 per day which means transit still costs more and takes longer.

Part of the problem is that the LIRR ticket prices has been used for years to subsidize the subway for years. It was even in the statement issued, that even though LIRR was going up, they considered far more important that the subway fare hold at $2. Maybe if it was equalized LIRR would cost les than driving. Of course then we still have no real service east of Ronkonkoma and only 1 train an hour rom there unless it's rush hour.

Of course I have learned the hard way even in Queens or the city the MTA is not a panacea. A couple of good examples...

34'th and 7'th to LGA - I can drive it usuually in 30-40 minutes at the times I needed to be at LGA, but using subway/bus takes an hour.

LGA to Coney Island - Again this is a 30-40 minutes drive when I have done it, but using bus/subway or even ride with a friend to subway is 60-90 minutes depending on which train.

So again I say as good as our transit system is (and it is far superir to anything I have experienced in DFW, CLE, PIT, MSP, or PHL) it is still severely lacking in being cheaper and faster than driving. Until the politicians fix that inequity traffic will only get worse as most people will still drive, even though they hate it, if it both faster and cheaper to do so.

[USAF Pilot 07]

In reference to Smartass Flyboy's first reply, I was talking about MTA NYC Transit - since the thread was originally about the increase in monthly NYC transit Unlimited Ride Card - not the LIRR, not MNRR, not Amtrak or whatever other transit system.

Suburban commuters fall into a different category, since most have to own a car anyway. It may not be more cost/time efficient for them to take public transportation everywhere (although it can be), but can be much easier and cause less headaches.

As for your "math", like Phil said, you pretty much left out all of the costs associated with owning a car, other than the only one most people think about - gas. As for your insurance only being like $630 a month, that's something called insurance fraud. Your car has to be registered at your primary place of residence, not according to what kind of plates you have on the car. If you get into an accident in NY and you're insurance company launches an investigation on the case, and finds out you no longer reside in MN and have been living in NY for some time, and hadn't notified them, they could deny you coverage.

That aside, most people living in our area don't have insurance on their cars in other states, and are therefore paying upwards of $1500 a year in car insurance. So while you may the exception, you're not the norm. Most people don't have cars that are getting 30 miles to the gallon, so again you're the exception, not the norm. Most people make car payments, and if they don't still paid tens of thousands of dollars for their cars when they purchased them. If you commute to Manhattan everyday, you add significant wear and tear on your car, leading to higher maintenance costs. Also, don't forget that if you commute to Manhattan everyday, and work in a business district, there generally isn't much street parking. So add to all those costs the cost of garaging your car at a cost of at least $20, and probably closer to $30-$40 a day; some garages down near Wall Street are as much as $100 a day.

So, like I said originally, if you live in NYC and pay even $100 a month for an unlimited Metrocard, you come out way ahead financially than if you buy a car and drive it to work everyday....

[PhilDernerJr]

Also keep in mind that paying out-of-state insurance as an NY State resident is illegal.