Air France plane missing over the Atlantic

[DHG750R]

Wow , looking at those ACARS messages. It it didnt come apart at altitude, they almost certainly lost control of it. Just about everything needed failed.

[Matt Molnar]

CNN reporting some bodies have been found.

[Delta777LR]

So far 2 bodies have been found.

[MarkLawrence]

According to MSNBC, another 3 bodies. I'm guessing they are close to the crash site, but with currents, weather, etc, it might be a big search area still.

[Matt Molnar]

17 bodies now recovered according to Brazilian news agencies.

[MarkLawrence]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31151191/

Now a large section of the tail has been found - it looks like we are getting a little closer to knowing what might have happened...

[T-Bird76]

The tail looks like it snapped off pretty clean vs. being damaged upon impacting the water.

[moose135]

The tail looks like it snapped off pretty clean vs. being damaged upon impacting the water.

Reminds me of the photos the tail from AA587...

[Matt Molnar]

The first line of the ACARS warnings jumped out at me when I first saw it, and seeing the tail reinforces this. I haven't seen this explored anywhere else, have you guys?

F/CTL RUD TRV LIMIT FAULT

I'm pretty positive that means FLIGHT CONTROL RUDDER TRAVEL LIMIT FAULT.

The rudder moving too far would be the same thing that led to the demise of AA 587.

[mirrodie]

Given the wx conditions that are being considered, I personally feel that in being tossed about, that jet also lost its rudder.

RIP

[T-Bird76]

The computer on the A330 doesn't allow movement like that on the A300. Remember the A300 isn't fly by wire. Even when the A330 switched to alternate law the computer still wouldn't allow rudder movement like AA587. It is very interesting however why the break is so clean....

[Matt Molnar]

The computer on the A330 doesn't allow movement like that on the A300. Remember the A300 isn't fly by wire. Even when the A330 switched to alternate law the computer still wouldn't allow rudder movement like AA587. It is very interesting however why the break is so clean....

Supposedly, but the ACARS fault message would seem to indicate that it did travel too far for one reason or another, whether it was input from the crew or the result of high wind.

[DHG750R]

Looking at that picture, the 1st thought was AA587's tail. If true, that ECAM message might be a big clue. Most yaw dampers dont have the control authority to move the rudder more than a few degrees either way.
If the systems on the A330 are degraded to direct law, would that rudder limit protection still be there?

Just to throw something out there, has anyone thought of an uncommanded rudder movement leadint to the separation if the entire fin and loss of control?

[cancidas]

Just to throw something out there, has anyone thought of an uncommanded rudder movement leadint to the separation if the entire fin and loss of control?

at first no, but it's starting to make sense. could an electrical short have caused uncommanded rudder movements?

[T-Bird76]

Looking at that picture, the 1st thought was AA587's tail. If true, that ECAM message might be a big clue. Most yaw dampers dont have the control authority to move the rudder more than a few degrees either way.
If the systems on the A330 are degraded to direct law, would that rudder limit protection still be there?

Just to throw something out there, has anyone thought of an uncommanded rudder movement leadint to the separation if the entire fin and loss of control?

Direct law would cause the plane to do whatever the pilots wanted it to do, so no there would be no protection from that kind of rudder movement. I don't recall that the ARCAS messages indicated that plane went to Direct law.